Six Tips for a Succeeding in the Civilian World

I only did three years of active duty and five in the reserves, but I honestly have to say that it took me a good 10 years to adjust to civilian life.

Here is my advice:

1. Go to school and complete a program of some type even if it's not a bachelor's degree. Civilians value civilian accredited education and they do not care how you did at PLDC or BNCOC.

And while we're on the subject, no, I've never had a potential employer ask to see a copy of my DD214. Most of them have no idea that it exists and the one that I did show it to was befuddled by it.

2. Update your civilian wardrobe to match the styles of today and not of when you graduated high school.

3. If you find yourself missing the camaraderie of the military then join a VFW or American Legion Post. You will never find that in the workforce.

4. Personally, I found that working for larger organizations proved to be an easier transition because they do have some semblance of structure to them. So do most government agencies. There's something to be said for stability.

5. Consider a career in business to business sales. On the face of it, many people shy away from this because you are basing your income on what you produce. But the reality is in the civilian world, nothing happens until a sale is made. In addition to that, there are some very lucrative earnings to be made from sales.

Consider for a moment all of the different people that you've had to deal with over the years in your military career. Besides your work ethic, that is the one advantage that you are taking with you that most people are sorely lacking in the civilian workforce. You know how to relate to different people from all sorts of backgrounds and connect with them. People skills are invaluable.

6. Stay true to your core values that you hold dear and do not compromise them. So you find out after six months that the people you are working for are dirtbags? So what? Move on. Someone out there shares your values and will pay you handsomely for it.

I truly hope that you are able to take one or two ideas from this and apply them to your search for a new career. Good Luck to all of you. Thank you for your selfless service and Godspeed.

(Submitted by Mr. Michael Starnes )

Comments

[Tony Wilson]

I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I sorely miss military life. Things like trust, camaraderie, work ethic and positive attitude,I used to joke about, because they were natural, automatic even. I'd love to hear from anyone who has ideas or experiences in helping with the adjustment. I've been retired 5 years and I'm still adjusting.

[Cheryl Todicheeney]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that civilian life and trying to find a job is a whole different ballgame. Talk about a cold, cruel world. After 8 years in the Marine Corps and going back to school for Medical Billing/Coding-there still is a difference-I still don't fit in but my ability to be receptive to people with different cultures/backgrounds has been invaluable to me throughout my transition and to date. I thank the military for that or I still would've been living in a box.

[Joe Smith]

I disliked my time in the military, and thoroughly prefer the civilian world, where I'm *get this!* treated like a HUMAN BEING.

Oh and by the way, I think it's absolutely remarkable that anyone who was 'in the military' is assumed to have a "work ethic". Some of the laziest slobs on the face of this earth wear a uniform- and the worst part is that many of these mental sloths make the decisions that effectively run your life.

But thanks for the free advice.

[Jason Morales]

God, I agree on the slobs comment above. It's one of the reasons I didn't re-enlist in the Marine Corps. Eliminate these S*&t Birds and stop promoting them, and the Corps and all sister services would see less people transitioning out of them. OOORAH!

[Mike]

Joe Smith--with an attitude like yours, no wonder you couldn't cut it in the military. You leave a very bad impression and I hope you haven't carried it into your civilian life also.

Lastly, please consider this free advice also.

[Ken]

I strongly agree with Smith. The military is what it is. If it was all the good that they make it out to be, then you would hear good... but you don't. Don't get me wrong, i did my time in service and i seriously did not like my experience. The military's mission is ok, but as for making a career out of it is poor, that's why i joined the reserves. I enjoy doing what i can to defend my country but i just couldn't stand working with most of the people in there.

[Tracey]

To all of the folks reading this:

I graduated from West Point in 1995, and while I wore my ring, I swear I never was a "ring knocker" type. I want to say something about my "adjustment" to civilian life. I haven't adjusted. While life in the Army wasn't always easy, I was surrounded by people that had similar values that I did. We all were serving our nation and were willing to put our necks out there if we were asked to do that. Plus, since we were all away from our families, we had to depend on each other for support and friendship. I made wonderful friends during my five years in the Army and felt good about who I was, even though I had serious hang-ups about some quality of life issues like deployments and the possibility of having to be away from my husband and children.

By the time I got out of the Army, I was a Captain. I was Airborne and Air Assault qualified. People saluted me, and I saluted people. In essence, I was a somebody. I had status.

But when I got out to care for my two children as a stay at home mom for two years, I became a nobody. No one around me had a clue about what military service meant since I wasn't near a military base. No one knew who I was or what rank I had. To them, I was just a mom with no power, no prestige, and no authority. I didn't live by any family of my own, although my husband was near all of his family. Because they weren;t my own family, I felt lonely as I made my adjustment into this new life. In an effort to rebuild my sense of identity, I went back to college to get another degree as a teacher so I could actually get a job. I live in a part of Ohio called "the rust belt" where jobs are scarce for professionals and federal jobs are virtually nonexistent.

To make a long story short, I wound up going to school for teacher licensure for a year before skipping over to earn my master's degree for two years. Then, out of a desperation to gain status, I went on to work on my English Ph.D. for another 2.5 years. You know what? It began to dawn on me that I was never going to get the status or sense of belonging back. Earning a Ph.D. just for status and for poeple to say, "Wow is she smart" just seemed pretty damned stupid and pointless. So I left my program and tried to get a job. Here's the good part. I actually thought (stupid me) that it would be so easy getting a job. All I had to do was say that I graduated from West Point, and they'd tip over themselves to hire me and pay me the high salary that I figured I seserved since I was so educated and all. Guess what. No one wanted me. I got one job interview at a local university, and they didn't even give me a 2nd interview. Then in late February after three months of searching, I got desperate and walked into a temp agency to see what kind of pathetics, low-paying job I could find. The vice president talked to me, and he liked me. He asked me to come in for an interview for a job with them on their staff. I was hired to work in March of 08. I still searched desperately over the internet and in the paper for another job, since this job was not really a challenge to me and the pay wasn't great. I still haven't been able to find abother job yet. I've settled into this job now, and I've ironed out my differences with my office-mate. But I know that I was destined for greater responsibility and authority, and I can't stay here much longer. I've decided to go back to college full time this December and finish up that damned teaching license. I'll teach for a few years and work on my principal's license so that I can finally get to the point where i'm doing soething that closely models the kind of work I did in the Army, although there are obvious differences.

What I hope you all get is that it took me 8 years to finally start to get on track after getting out of the Army. And I still have years to go before I'll be where I want to be in life. The civilian world, as someone else on this blog put it, values job experience and proof of expertise in some field or another.

The D.C. area is a great place to go if you are just getting out and want to find a job that will value your military experience. But what I think is that many of us get "institutionalized" by our military service and try to find something in the civilian world to mirror our military life in the best way we can. I think I can live with that. Good luck you guys.

[H. Campbell]

I was in the Canadian Army for 21 years and 10 days. I had 6 months re-hab leave. I was asked in my last month if I would reconsider staying in. It was good to see that the Army thought I had something to still offer, but still I couldn't see me going back in.I think I was about 10 days past my release date when my boss asked me if I missed it. I said, " missed what". She said," the army, your time was up 10 days ago". Guess I didn't miss and still don't. Had good times, lots of travel, good friends a decent trade on leaving. Get my pension cheque once a month is all the reminder I need.

[hussein]

hi i would like to be translater for the us aromy thank u i speak very good arabic

[EXMARINE]

I dropped out of High School after 11th grade and went into the Marines. I started in the reserves and should have finished in the reserves. I really wanted to be a GREAT Marine but from day one nothing ever seemed to go right for me. I augmented to active duty and oh boy what a mistake. Due to my super high ASVAB I entered as a 3421 or Disbursing even though I had no High School diploma. I have never been a loud person or a good runner or too good at doing mundane stupid s*** at the whim of someone else. I was a 3rd award rifle expert with 235 and a 1st class PFT and maxed on all education points. I seemed to be disliked everywhere I worked by the higher ups and I couldn't walk right,talk right,dress right(mind you I bought expensive shirts and shoes and everything). I couldn't run right, cut my hair right or anything else. I was barely 17 when I went in. I eventually became so self conscious I could hardly walk straight. I really let it get to me. I wasn't perfect but I never got NJP and my final pro and con marks were 4.8 4.9 . When I came up for E4 and was promoted automatically on paper it was taken from me and I was given not recommended for promotion for the next 15 months until I got out. Every 3 months my OIC or Staff NCO asked me to sign a paper saying I was too immature and negative and not fit to be a NCO. In the meantime I was Corporal of the Guard and kick rear at it and on the last day I was to get an award but the jerk in charge told me to get a hair cut and come back and see him and threw the award away. I had just gotten a haircut. I was a E3 for around 40 months because I got out of Boot an E2. I never signed any of those papers except the first one when a Colonel Heck of H&S BN said if I wanted my promotion to remain I had to sign it-- Fooled the naive Missouri kid again. That was the last thing I ever signed. I was recommended for reenlistment 15 months prior to my end of contract but when it came time for me to get out the same people that wouldn't promote me Non-Recomended me for reenlistment saying I wasn't suited for Military life. I had an old black female Master Guns pull me in her office and tell me she thought I was too smart for the Marines. I requested mass because I was trying to get hired by the San Diego PD and almost there but a Non-Rec for Reenlistment would disqualify me. The request mast went no where. I was so damn glad to get out. I got my 214 and it had the good reenlistment code I think because my parents wrote our congressman on my behalf-I didn't ask them to. So I got out and within a year went into a deep depression and I was about to get married and had a nervous breakdown but somehow only missed one day of work. I am Married now to the same women since 1989 and have 5 kids and with no degree I worked my way into making $25 an hour all the while fighting the deep sense of worthlessness I got from the Marine Corps. I have been on Medication since I got out for depression, nerves, OCD, and I have a low self esteem and a big part of it is because I feel like a failure still. I just can't feel proud of my service because I feel if that many people cohorted to keep me from getting promoted and staying in than I must be a really screwed up individual. My biggest fault has been being tardy and the other one is due to my low esteem and I am pretty sure I developed a Paranoid disorder because I always feel I am being judged or people are hurting me behind my back. If by chance a Gunny Riojas from disbursing or SSGT Seals or others from the mid 80's read this you can kiss my rear. I hope you aren't reading this because that would mean you are still around to mess up other young people..
To the West Point whiner above I know what your problem is. You miss the unearned respect that you are granted by being an Officer and especially a West Point graduate. This is why the Marine Corps has so many losers that stay in and destroy kids like I was. They can't get any deserved respect out here where you have to earn it. So guess what,no one gives a hoot what a big shot you thought you were as an Officer. I am sure you carry that superior attitude around with you and put people off. Also, if you are really smart no one is going to hire you if they think you may take their job.

Oh and I wish I would have gotten that bad reenlistment code because almost 3 years after I got out the same Marine Corps that didn't want me called me up for Desert Storm.
Signed Lance Corporal MH

[Lee Peterson]

After reading comments by Tracy and Lance Corporal MH, in response to 6 Ways to succeeding in the Civilian world, I am amazed that they even qualified for the Military. Their lack of self respect is overwhelming and the Lance Corp. needs to learn what it means to take responsibility for ones self.

God Bless those who serve our country. Lee

[EXMARINE]

To Lee Peterson,
I am afraid you missed the point of my post. I take responsibility for any mistakes I made like dropping out of some runs due to severe stress fractures which I have suffered with since getting out of the Corps. Oh and I haven't tried to get disability which is real popular these days. See I was just a loser for dropping from the runs and had a bad attitude, forget the serious pain I was in but I didn't want to be called a sick bay commando so I didn't go to sick bay until once when I couldn't even push in my clutch to drive and as expected I was labeled a quitter for getting a couple weeks of light duty. I also showed up for a 5 mile run with the wrong socks on and the officer in charge decided I did it just to spite him. The time I left for a month of leave and forgot to pick up my leave papers after midnight on Friday and called from an 8 hours drive away on my way home to tell my OIC I forgot to get my leave papers and I was told to return to base which was ridiculous for a simple paperwork snafu. I was eventually told to turn myself in as UA at the Marine Corps Finance Center in Kansas City when I got home near Kansas City. I got home 36 hours later and slept and got up and turned myself in and the Staff NCO laughed and said just to have them fax my papers to me. I called and they refused but this smart Staff NCO got on the phone to some people and got my papers and said I must work for some real A-Holes. I got back from leave and they tried to charge me with UA saying I left right after work Friday instead of after midnight and was a lier. As luck would have it I got pulled over returning to base right at the front gate about 2am Saturday morning because some Oceanside cop thought I was drinking and driving and I had a 7-UP can he saw me drinking-ooops. The gate guard made me stop at the gate after seeing this and checked me out and made me sign in. So I had proof I left after midnight and had a copy of the log in my pocket and when I gave it to my OIC to prove I was telling the truth he threw my personel folder in my face and cussed me out and that was the end of that. The only thing I ever really did wrong was had a persistent what appeared by the look on my face to be negative attitude. I still have that look mostly cause I am just not and never have been an upbeat type smiling person. I did everything I could to be a good Marine but just didn't fit in with the click I worked with. So what I am saying is there are a lot of losers in the Marines that take pleasure in finding that one person to tear down but they couldn't beat me and it pissed them off. I was never charged with anything and had letters of appreciation and commendation from having the lowest error rate in my disbursing unit and for things done away from my unit. But there is something about me that I can't afford enough shrink visits to figure out that makes me a target everywhere I work even now but my brains and skill keep me employeed to the chagrin of haters. Yes I am far from perfect but not everyone has a positive experience from the military-it is not for everyone. I wish still I could have made a career out of it and almost went back in thinking maybe it would be better because I wanted to be a lifer. I am glad I didn't give it another try because now I know it would have ended the same. P.S> when I was in no one ran around with this pathetic thank you for your service crap like they do now-no one ever thanked us. I thank those that are there for truley patriotic reasons but not many are. Most are there for lack of any other skill and to get money for college and they do what they do because they have to do it or they get in serious trouble. The true warriors were from WW1 and WW2 and Korea... Look at the pathetic number of service people getting on disability from the current joke of a war-it is pathetic and a true representation of the gimme gimme society today. So now we will be paying these people off for the rest of their lives because they seen a way to get paid for nothing. Do you really think these guys had more stress than previous wars like vietnam - hell no. To the guys that were killed and wounded I am truley sorry you were hurt but you signed up and knew the risks and were in the wrong place at the wrong time becuase guess what - you actually had to see some action. That is what the military is for - not to get a free education or avoid jail time. Hero is thrown around too much - you are not a hero for just being there or being a pow because that wasn't your intent. A hero is a guy that throw his body on a grenade so others may continue the fight. I would never do this and I know it, I would run away from that grenade. I signed up to serve my nation and would have went anywhere I was asked and knew the risks. What have you done to further this institution that is falling apart fast? You were one of those guys that got some rank and it went to your head right. Even though all that respect you thought you were getting was only the people under you trying to stay off your radar cause they knew you were a sadistic f--k.Making rank and getting that automatic fake respect doesn't compare to being a Manager in the real world where you have to find a way to motivate people besides fear of the UCMJ. LONG LIVE MICHAEL MOORE !! Michael Moore for President and Chris Rock for VP !

[EXMARINE]

Walt Disney was not a good Marine and hung his discharge papers upside down. A lot of people that failed to succeed in the Marines made it when they got out...

[John]

I have 8 months left. There are different comments because there are different types of people. It all depends on many things like: how you were raised, Why youre in the military, or how your first command or first impression from leadership goes.....
Its really your choice if you want to Shine or Hide out with a low profile. Most of the time the Navy voluntold me to do most of my jobs, i like to stick to low profile most of the time but the navy prevents most of that since they love volunteering you for anything... i learned AAAA LOTTT and STTTILLL continue learning in the Navy during my last 8 months.... so much benefits, i had free healthcare, free place to stay (WELL for 2 years at least) besides ships and barracks... im enjoying my time in Japan im on my 5th year in Japan and i learned to love this country and thanks to the navy i am here. But the negative sides are the ass holes that just pretend to work and if i start working hard they discourage you, i hate being around ignorarnt people who get what they want and recognition for being a loud mouth hypocrite. anyways the military or the navy taught me a lot of things, hard work, dedication, most of all how to deal with stress and how to USE STRESS for the good as in accomplishing tasks FAST and with QUALITY. if i didnt join the navy i would be a super slow easy going california gangbanger smokin that sticKy stuff, but instead i learned how 3rd world countries like my own (philippines) there are men my age who work their ass off to earn less than 50 bucks...
Im ready to try the civilian world after learning to grow up via the US NAVY. not to mention VA LOAN and GI BILL i will get! thanks USA.

[Xan]

I have had the same difficulty adjusting to the civilian workforce. I have 11 years active and 6 more reserves. I got my degree on the Army college fund and have been working for about 4 years. I am just now starting to adjust. I will tell you that dirtbags do exist in the service, but as a leader I had a lot more I could do to bring them in line. I have had dirt bags or incompetent people working on my team and there was little I could do but put it in writing and hope higher management backed me up (not always the case).

[Frank]

To the Military Basher,

You obviously did not learn anything from being in the Military,if you say you feel there are more lazy individuals then in the civilian work force.I may go on a limb and say that you might be a resentful person who just could not cut it and might of been chaptered under less then honorable conditions.
You obviously did not get the part of military life about being a Band of brothers and sisters,that no matter where you go in life that tie will always be strong.Whether you were Army,Navy,Airforce,Marine or Coast Guard....

[Jack]

My military transistion was not as difficult as I had imagined nor heard it would be. In fact, I found that while the civilian workforce is vastly different from military service, some of the factors that helped me to be successful in the military also helped me to be successful out here.

I found that the ability to find work outside of the military is directly proportionate to the amount of effort you put into planning the transition. Anyone who wants to make a career change has to plan for it. It's all that much more important for military personnel who wish to return to civilian life because the military experience is more structured than the average civilian job. Truthfully, everything in the military is more structured. It's a microcosm of the civilian world.There are people who are lazy or unprincipled in the military just as there is in the civilian world. Everyone who ever served was or will be a civilain at one time or another - so it's no surprise thayt you can find all types. Truthfully, I found that most of the people who served were much like myself, eager to learn, eager to contribbute, and for the most part dependable. I had some superiors and subordinates who did not seem to share many of the values that the military encouraged us to develop but at the same time there were more people who did. Some of them went far beyond what was required. As I still work with the military now as a civilan, I still see both types. When I get back to the office at the end of the day, I see both types there too.

I've also discovered that you often have to be willing to go where the work is. If you have an education but there are no jobs where you are, it often helps to be open to the prospect of moving.
A person with experience and education is always competitive - just not always in every area.

It helps to be realistic about it. When I decided that I wanted to transition out, I began planning by taking advantage of another well structured perk of the military- free education. I knew that civilian employers wouldn't always know what a Gas Turbine Electrician is so I got an accreddited civilian degree which allowed me to showcase skills which I learned primarily in the military. Before anyone says that I must have had mpore time than anyone else to do- I will tell you most of that dgree was completed while at sea. I was an engineer in the Navy and I stood at least 8 hours of watches daily in addition to training a division, mananaging their career development, and balancing the daily workload of maintenance and emergent repairs. It wasn't easy at all, and I had to finsh on shore duty- but beleive me- you can accomplish a great deal if you truly desire to do so. I never thought I would have been able to even gradualte my initial Navy Schooling but when I applied myself, I did better tan pass I excelled, and every step of the way, there were people encoutraging and supporting me. There was some who didn't but I chose to focus on those who wanted me to succeed.

When I got closer to my separation date, I then began seeking out resources to help me make my transition smoother. Ultimately by the time I had one month of active duty left, I had nearly 12 resumes out and by the day I separated, I had three competing job offers on the table. I eventually took a job very closely related to what I did in the military and in one year I jumped from E-6 pay (unmarried) which was about 52000 a year gross to 70000+. Again, it wasn't easy, I put in many long hours, but thanks to my military experinece long days meant little. I have had 36 hours days in the Persian Gulf in a engineroom where the temperature was over 112 degrees. After that experience this job feels like a piece of cake!

I have more free time to pursue my personal interests and trecently took a job as a GS-11 working for the same department which I served in as a military person.

If I had any advice to give to those who are making the transition, it would be this:

1) Plan for your exit from the military - pay off debt, educate yourself, and research potential areas of civilian employemtn so that you will know what it takes to get the job and keep it.

2) Don't forget to network and ask people what they did to get where they are. Use every resource available to gain a realistic perspective on what is available to you. Don't assume that you military status is a "golden key"; it is an advantage but you will often have to show in a resume and in an interview how it will help you to help your employer. Remember that civilian employers have "billets" to fill as well. They need to hire the right people with the right skills at the right time. The trick is in learning how to have the right skills, how to show that you are the right person, and knowing what the right time is. It's part luck, but in the end it's mostly about planning.

3) Don't expect to find a high powered high paying job in the wrong market. The reality of civilian life is not much different than the military. In the service, their must be a billet to fill and to fill a billet you must have the right skills. It's the same in the civilain world, it's possible that your hometown simply doesn't have a job moarket for a mechanical control technican or computer security expert. In addtion to researching potential jobs, research potential areas of employment.

When I first joined the military, one of the first things I learned was this:

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

Good luck to all who wish to make the transition. Like many of you a career in the military just wasn't for me, but it was a great opportunity to learn new skills, meet a lot of good people, and ultimately serve my country. I have no regrets. Employers in the civilain market can respect your experience but they need to hire the right person with the right skills to help their bottom line too.

[G]

I have never heard such a bunch of winners.Look if the military taught you anything I hope its that you can over come any obstical and if there was a SGT in your face its because you were a soupsand-which Devil Dog. I did time in the Marines and Active Army.They dont call marine leather necks for nothing. You need to stop looking around and pointing the finger move on and find your drive and push your self to where you want to be .Anything can be accomplished with hard work and sacrifice.As for the Officer I personal think you got issues you will never get what you got in the military on the out side in 4 years in the army your CPT and you can control as many as 150 soldier I think thats just wrong because most captins dont even know where there forth Point of contact is I had privates that were ten years older then my CPT. and Jr(Captins) thinks he going to be making decisions that s funny.The army gave you a false sense of Power you may have thought you were a little better than you were.Look in realty officer dont much the enlisted do most of the work you got a First SGT a supply guy and training SGT. You pretty much pass the buck to your Platoon SGT and the do the work. I'm serious your like a jack of all trades master of none you dont really get in the real officer stuff until your at least a Major or higher. Look as read you troop need to stop going on these websites and crying and push your self for bigger and better thing dont waste your time you got one life to live.You got to keep moving were was that fire you once had you need to bring that flame back up and knock down those wall you must be true to your self and never surrender and never give up.

[Army Jumpmaster]

I agree with Joe Smith up to a certain point there are a lot of dirt bags in the military hut with attitude like this it doesn't help at all. I can almost guarantee he was a first termer in the military and such a great apple you lacked the discipline to stay in in the first place. True potential is when you find your self with bad leaders and you make the difference by working around these people and making things happen. The military life is hard for those who don't try and expect a 9 to 5.

[Tracie]

I retired a year ago and took a job in a Corporate Environment. I lasted 9 months and left when they said to me "You're too black and white , Could you be a little more grey"?. I missed the team effort and structure of the Military and couldn't get used to the Corporate backstabbing. So I told them no and went back to the Government working for the VA. It's much better to have the structure back.

[WK&F]

Love my job in the Air Force! Very little chance for me to translate my skills into a civilian career. The biggest thing I'm taking with me when I ETS this December is a positive attitude, a willingness to work as a team, and to find something I enjoy doing, knowing full well that I'll never find out there what I've had in here... Love the adventure and press on!

[CPL BARKER USMC]

Cpl MH. Jeeze guy. It's a shame that you survived as long as you did, in the USMC. I can't believe that after all of that garbage, you still had the nerve to state that you were thinking about getting back in. After all of that trash talking about how stupid everyone is, and how mean everyone was to you...you actually thought about getting back in. If you think today's Marine Corps is mean, and condenscending, you should've been in during the Vietnam days, or WW2. There they wouldn't just put you down for being a sissy, they would beat you up until you became a man....and yes my uncle's that were in the marines during that period, became men...and not one had their feelings hurt. Once again, the Marines are what you make of it...just like in civilian life. If you do your job well, then you will be rewarded. Only in the civilian world, there is no structure at some places, and you may not get complete praise, which is why you can always look elsewhere. In the Marine Corps, your future is all right in front of you. And for the record, don't diss our fellow Marines that are over seas in Iraq and Afghanistan. You should also be ashamed of yourself for even thinking of such a thing. You are just like the bag nasty civilian making ignorant comments which you have no knowledge of. Have you ever talked to any Marine that has been involved in any of these conflicts? Why don't you ask them about stress? Why don't you go over to Iraq and stand up in front of a company of Marines and tell them your pathetic story.
SEMPER FI MARINES!

[REDurham]

The only thing that can help "EXMARINE Lance Corporal MH" is God.
EXARMY and proud of it.

[SgtM]

I was in the Army for 3.5 yr, and out for 4 years. I have had great jobs, but they are not as satisfying as the Army. I plan to go back in by the end of the year.

As for the exmarine LC mh, you failed to adapt to military life. And the DS must have saw your weakness. And I am sure they were on your a** b'c as a sgt it is there duty to make you a better Marine. But it still in the end is up to you the individual. weak mind = nervous breakdown.
Military life is not for everyone but for others it is. I accomplish more in my personal life while serving in the Army, then in the civilian world. I wish all the best in the world they choose.

[Toney Chappell]

All,
I retired in '05 and contrary to popular belief regarding your DD214. I've been asked for mine twice by 2 different companies. I would say that if you're seeking employment with a DOD contractor, they're very familiar with your DD214 so I would not embellish.

[ET in the Navy]

I can't say any of the advice originally given in this article applied to me.

I transitioned from the military to civilian life so fast that I had a civvy job before my terminal leave expired.

I suppose that for the infantry and like-types, finding a civilian job of the same nature is hard. Perhaps my selected training of electronics in the Navy helped my transition to civilian life a lot. Or perhaps the fact that I was discharged in the same timeframe as 8 to 9 other individuals and we all worked at the same civilian company helped.

I can attest to the lack of personal camaraderie and closeness one develops in the military, but I still saw the same backstabbing, step on anyone around to get ahead mentality in the civilian world. I think the work ethic was about the same. I've known some real dirt bags in the military, but also knew some hard-chargers. Both of those exist no matter where you are, or where you're employed.

After 9 years of Navy life, I didn't miss the funky uniforms, the E-6 or E-7 telling me I needed to shave after a 24 hour duty shift, the pathetic excuses for a living area (including OFF the boat), nor the people who advanced in rank merely because they could take a multiple-answer test and satisfy the requirement of time in grade.

Nope. I don't miss any of those things, and tons more.

I parlayed my military training into damn-good employment with Intel, Raytheon, and Agilent. Then again, I had training and a vocation that was sought after in the civilian market. Perhaps that's the true key to making a successful transition: Having skills that make the transition with you.

Or perhaps some people are just meant to be military, and can't hack the civilian world (just as some civilians couldn't hack a military life).

And to Tracey, I don't think you got over the fact that people were kissing your ass because of a degree and graduation from WestPoint. Personally, I find most officers suffer from inflated egos and illusions of grandeur because they were treated that way in the military, compentency and ability aside. IE; How was I supposed to look to an O-3 or O-4 for guidance in the realm of electronics when he had an English degree or a degree in economics?

You pretty much said it all when you stated that you returned to school because you were desperate for "STATUS". You didn't return to school for marketable skills and knowledge.

[Scott T. Campbell]

Tracey's OK with me. She paid her dues and deserves much, much more respect than you bunch of whinning S..t Birds are capable of.

Everyone has a role to play. Just do your job, that's all that's required. Regardless, the mission will be accomplished with or without your help.

Get with the program: War is Hell and Life is a Mu..er Fu..er.

Hell, I don't even like the idea of women serving in a combat unit, they are a distracting influence.

Hey, are we fighiting a war or are we thinking about poking some babe.

Tracy's OK with me. Get with the program--grow up--and give her a well earned SNAPPY SALUTE.

USMC Grunt Sgt.(E-5)
Vietnam 68-69
S.T. Campbell

[FShirley]

In anything in life it is how you make of it and not everyone has the same view point.

I did 8 years of service. I miss being cared about, miss having some programs available to me that I don't have now, miss not having to pay rent, utilities, etc. I miss a lot of things.

I don't miss having to be like everyone else, and like being an individual.

But, I have found that the core values I learned and keep true to my heart is hard to find out in the real world. Integrity, service before self, especially caring about each other. (Everyone had that bad supervisor at one point in their career, it had to happen sooner or later, not everyone is equipped to be a leader/supervisor.)

In the military I belonged, in the real world I'm an outsider, if I could change my mind I would have stayed.

[Steve]

The military is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less.

[Irene Washington]

Have been retired for 3+ years, tried a civilian job, I could not handle how easily they lie to save their rear end... Hard dealing with civilians, that do not get things accomplished in a timely manner.......

[davemc]

I retired Navy in 2006 and am currently employed in the Defence Contractor Training world for a good company. I got hired almost right away after retirement. Put the hard earned skills you learned from your military experience to good use and learn how to write a good resume, and opportunities open. I have found that, at least in some civilian circles, that your military training and experience is very highly valued.

I completely agree with several of the posters here that social transition is indeed very difficult. I still have many troubles with the lack of structure and the need to closely watch everything you say/do. Civilian life is quite a bit more political and that in some companies, the "good ol boy network" is very much alive and well. This of course existed in military life, but its bearing on ones career was much less of an impact than it is in civilian life.

Lots of negativity posted here as well. This is unfortunate that you guys had a bad experience with military life, and it does happen to those who are sometimes deemed "noncomformists" by the status quo. I am not implying that either side is wrong, but there does exist a definite "us vs. them" mentality that often pervades many elements of a command. This develops generally to protect the command structure and preserve order. I have been witness and participant on both sides, as most of us do, and the wisdom and folly of this approach becomes apparent as we grow more senior in our careers and experience many command environments. I do sympathize with the disaffected here, and my advice to them is to forgive and forget. Not because what happened to you was generally negative, but because the healing process of the trauma caused to you by others cant start until you do. You are all out of the military now and have started new chapters in your lives, so focus on that and your families and put whatever skills and values you learned from military life to good use. Good luck.

[DaveR]

I retired from the Navy in June of 2004. I was hired into a teaching position that July and am currently still teaching in public school in San Antonio.

I am still adjusting to civilian life and I do miss some parts of being in the military.

There is no camaraderie to speak of. There is very little true teamwork and quality leadership is lacking. I miss non-taxable allowances and continually seeing new parts of the world.

The thing I miss most is commitment to the mission .A number of my current co-teachers have little commitment to what they do.

The old boy network is the system and it effects every aspect of my job. Hard work and results are acknowledged but how connected you are gets you the things you want on the job.

The only advice I have to transitioning people is to mold yourself to the company that hires you. Degrees and civilian certifications are necessary.

The same garbage exists in and out of the military. You have your dedicated hard working people and you have your manipulative, double talking, butt-kissing people who seem to get promoted based on everything but their ability to successfully do their job.

[Jeff Scarborough]

Thanks for posting this important information. As a former Marine who is starting a Marine Corps Leage Detachment here in Arkansas. I am always looking for resourses to help other Marines and Veterans transition back into the workforce. I remember how difficult it was for me and I want to be able to SERVE again, especially with the people I have similiar interest in. Godspeed to those who are serving and have served. May employers eventually grasp what we are doing and have done. Semper Fi.

[will]

Having been out of the Army now for 12 years, I find my daily life still affected a lot by my military experience. Let's not pretend the Army "was all that and a bag of donuts." It wasn't. That's not to say it was all bad, everyone above has some valid points, even the all negative ones. Most of the negativity you hear in the above comments are the result of NCO's with stripes but no real leadership ability. The "zero defect" Army has destroyed more good men than I can count. The affirmative action program opened my eyes to the real Army. Three times I was bumped from leadership schools because of quotas to be filled. The best man did not always win in a deck stacked in a manner that can't be shuffled. I couldn't change the color of my skin but yet it was held against me. On a positive note, the friends I made are friends for life. I would still give my life for any of them. I wish seven years of my Army life could provide me with more than 7 officers that I would stop to piss on if they were on fire in front of me, but I can't. I did meet some of the finest NCO's in the world, men I willingly went into combat with. The other side of the story, some of the most piss poor excuses for human beings also wore stripes. Once you learned that they were just punk little kids hiding behind some damn small stripes on their collar, it wasn't so bad. Confront them in a dark alley at night and they showed true colors generally running like a scared rabbit, or putting up such a weak attempt at a fight you couldn't even brag about whipping them, almost like beating up a little girl. All in all, I wouldn't trade the experience or the friends I made for all the money in the world. ALLONS (Blackhorse troopers, you know what that means)

[reality]

I have been out of the Navy for 2.5 years and I am about to graduate w/ a bachelor's degree. My military experience gave me the opportunity to go to college with the G.I. Bill and free state tuition. However, the six years I spent in the Navy exposed to some of the most incompetent, lazy, and bitter human beings I have ever met. If you have a low IQ, if you think a college education is a waste of time, if you want to be taken care of the rest of your life, if you want to be told what to do and how to do it on a daily basis, and if you like belittling people who are smarter than you because of your position, then join the Navy and become a Chief. In the real world you move up in your career based on your merit, hard work, and being the best person for the job. In the Navy, the intelligent, creative, and overachieving individuals realize that the Navy is a dead end and get out after one enlistment. The "rest" are what's left over, and by default must be promoted to fill certain billets. I called it "position through attrition", and this is how my chiefs came to power. They weren't the best person for the job, they were what was left over. In addition, they were bitter because they knew how incompetent they were, they were bitter because they got married young and had a few kids and felt pressured to re-enlist because they were afraid of pissing of their fat navy wives who were living the good life and just wanted security. The same wives who cheated on them every time they went to sea. Because they didn't have a creative thought in their head they felt obligated to shoot someone else's down. Oh, and if they were treated like crap by their own chiefs when they were blue shirts, then you could be damn sure that they were going to make YOU pay for it once they were allowed to dish it out. Why try to learn from your experiences and make things better for the next guy if that meant they would never know how "bad" you had back in the day? It's a vicious, endless circle and it encourages the incompetent to stay and the intelligent to get the hell out as soon as possible.

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[Glenn Robinson]

For all, who are blessed to complete a military career, The one thing I saw jump out at me while working in the civilian world was: STANDARDS! Military worker folk have a better developed set of work standards than civilian workers, some of who just don't give a F#$%k what type of work they produce! No wonder the country's going down the tubes!

DD214's USE THEM, they are a very important part of your job search and can help you land a job!