'We're Trained to Think We're All That'

The best advice I received while still in the military was ...

1. Don't get out of the service until you have a bachelor's degree. Your security clearance is not enough to land you a contractor position. I accomplished getting the bachelor's degree and was subsequently hired by a large defense/aerospace company. As I moved up in the company, one of the senior manager/engineers told me to never introduce a person's resume that did not have at least a bachelor's degree because that is the minimum standard for our industry (if you want a "good" job/high pay).

2. The second piece of advice that someone told me is to start preparing your civilian wardrobe at least 12 months prior to retirement. Buy quality clothing and have at least a week's worth of combinations. My wardrobe cost about $3,500 to put together.

3. Network. Every position or job that I had post-military was a result of networking.

4. Make copies of your milit ary medical records. I recommend that if you've had surgeries, or medical issues while in the military, go through your records and highlight these illnesses. Submit VA claims for everything when you outprocess the military. You can easily prove service-connected within the first year of discharge, but after that, it could be more difficult.

5. Yes, we served in the military and we are brainwashed to think "we're all that and a bag of chips," but you're probably not all that. When I compare college interns to retired military, I often find that we're a little more complacent and arogant, whereas, they don't have a retirement check and are a little more hungry.... They are trying to get to the top in a hurry. Don't be surprised that some of the younger employees run circles around you. Yes, your military experience counts, but in this environment, the question remains; "What have you done for us lately?"

6. Get out of debt before you leave the military. It could be awhile before you land a decent job. It's humbling when think you're worth XYZ and find out your civilian counterparts are only making ABC. Believe it when I say that the military actually pays a fair salary when you consider medical, dental, clothing, retirement and VA benefits, relocation, housing, etc. I was surprised that very few people knew how much they actually made while in the military. Civilian medical insurance can cost a family of four a thousand dollars per month. Know these numbers before you decide to get out of the military.

7.Lastly, I chased the high salary jobs at first knowing that I had a medical issue that would eventually cripple my ability to make a decent living. That day has come and now I'm needing a backup plan to my first six recommendations above. I didn't have a "backup" plan and am now trying to figure out my alternatives. Have a backup plan in-case your first plan doesn't work out.

(Submitted by Mr. Tom Arnott)

Comments

[Gary Bondaug]

1. Actually, if you want to get out, get out...20 years isn’t for everybody. With largely increased educational benefits right now is the time to get your education full time. Plan on which state you’re headed to and check out make plans for inexpensive housing and cost of living. Network with educated military and stay focused. Not every active duty service member is afforded the time to earn a 4 year degree.

2. Yes, BUY QUALITY but don’t spend $3,500. Once you’re in a company you’ll more than likely be doing “business casual.” Do plan ahead, you can buy 5 high quality 2-piece suits for much less. Check these sites out…www.menswearhouse.com and www.josbank.com.

3. Network. Every position or job that I had post-military was a result of networking. ABSOLUTELY! For Marines there is the Marine 4 Life program (M4L), the National Marine Corps Business Network, and of course LinkedIn (just search for Marine Corps or whatever service).

4. Not only are our ideals a bit different but we also speak a language, carry ourselves, and our expectations are a lot more rigid than the corporate world would like to see. Be open minded, carry the mind set that you’re their to do “their job” and not the DoD’s.

5. Get out of debt before you leave the military. Very critical. It may take a while to land a very good job and in many places you’ll have to commute. Then there’s the fact that a commissary isn’t always around…get ready for a cost of living increase of about 5%-10% without the benefit of COLA.

8. A back up plan is SOP. Very few people stay in the same job for more than 3 years these days. Fifty-one percent of U.S. jobs are “information” related so gear up on that degree if you are medically challenged; your best bet for a high income is going to be in an office.

[Gary Bondaug]

And remember to slow down when communicating, it'll save you from posting with a lot of grammatical errors! (see above) ha ha

[P.J. Busche]

1. Not everyone is capable of meeting the academic requirements to achieve a bachelor's degree; unless of course you're trying for a degree in liberal arts. The English and Math requirements to earn a B.A. exceed the abilities of most enlisted personnel.

2. An office job is not for everyone. Most enlisted personnel are not suited to an office job.

3. Job satisfaction is not just measured in high wages. Good pay helps, but it isn't everything. Most people value self-respect and a sense of accomplishment as more important than high wages.

4. The best backup plan is the ability to start over at a new job. Unless you're working in a union shop environment or an elected gov't official, job security is an elusive fantasy. You perform your job to the best of your abilities, one day at a time. Assuming you are an excellent worker, you are likely to maintain your job, but there is really no written-in-stone guarantee that you will keep your position.

5. Remember, life is unfair. We all learned that in the military.

[Enlisted Soldier]

Regarding Mr. Busche: "2. An office job is not for everyone. Most enlisted personnel are not suited to an office job"

You are kidding right? If not, have you really looked at the enlisted ranks? If so, you need to widen your lens of observation.

[retired enlisted guy]

To Mr. Busche: Either you had an unsucessful career in the military or you were an officer, one of the two created your negative view of the typical enlisted member. I work at a large defense contracting facility and we have more enlisted running things here than you would believe. If you retire, get a degree the best way you can. If you are lucky enough to obtain it before you hang up your hat, good for you. If not, work on it when you are out. My advice is: If you do not have a degree, highlight your experience! One more thing to remember, do not ever lie on your resume, no one likes that and it could mean dismissal. Above all, relax, you will be surprised at how many companies want to hire ex-enlisted.

[Mike M.]

Regarding Mr. Busche: "The English and Math requirements to earn a B.A. exceed the abilities of most enlisted personnel".

Wow! I cannot spell "cat" if you don’t spot me the 'C' & 'T'.....2 + 3 = 6, correct?!?;-) I’m so glad you’re around to help lead us……..

Please don't resort to this kind of negativity on enlisted personnel……

[Dino]

To Mr. Busche: Yup!!! You are probably an officer who hide in your office and let your enlisted folks do all the work and take the credit. You need to look back and see who cover your behind when your boss "the skipper" push you against the wall. I am a retired enlisted and I have a degree, I got it through hard work, and I work in the office as a department head.
My advice to fellow enlisted: work hard toward your degree, never give up. Practice your interview skills, remember you resume will get your foot in the door but the way you present yourself during the interview process is your selling point. This is our weak spot, we can do the job but it is hard for us to sell ourselve, work on it and you'll be fine.

[Frank]

Hey guys, don't tar and feather all officers. Most of us have nothing but respect for our enlisted bretheran...and peers in the civilian world. Some of us are also prior enlisted.

[Herohero]

1. Not everyone is capable of meeting the academic requirements to achieve a bachelor's degree; unless of course you're trying for a degree in liberal arts. The English and Math requirements to earn a B.A. exceed the abilities of most enlisted personnel.

Uh, I think English is a liberal arts major, and thus just as easy to nail as underwater basket weaving.

You're probably a Chemical Corps officer, right?

[Mark Owen]

The English and math requirements exceed the aptitude of most enlisted personnel? Let me tell you a story. I am one of those "dumb" enlisted folks who completed a BA in International Business. I continued to serve as enlisted after graduation, as work done by those in the lower ranks is extremely vital and can be very rewarding. I continued on to graduate school and decided to take a C++ programming class. I had a "slight" problem to overcome. I had never taken a programming class before and knew nothing about even C programming, must less C++. In order to pass this class, I went out and hired an extremely knowledgeable tutor for $25 per hour. I was a "dumb" enlisted person who had unbeatable drive and a no quit attitude and of course, I passed the class with a B average just like I knew I would. I could have done the same with any English or math class, but I didn't need extra help with those. The point I am trying to make is that aptitude is nothing and attitude is everything. If you put the effort into school or office work or whatever..., you will almost never fail. Don't listen to the Mr. Busches of the world. Oh, by the way, Mr. Busche, when my ship hosted an admiral from Japan during joint excercises around Hawaii this past summer, our Japanese language interpreter was an E-4 who was not of Japanese ancestry. None of the officers aboard were able to perform this task.

[D. Stubb]

This poor lost soul: "P.J. Busche" is extremely and remarkably a joke! You've got to be kidding me! Don't let this person post "anything" again! With his knowledge, no wonder we are in Iraq.....

[James Sanders]

Dear Mr.Busche, thanks for the vote of confidense, I too was an enlisted man who made my Division Officer look like a star. No degree here, just hard work and thanks to the schooling I received while in the Navy. Was a Union Electricain for 15 years, now work at a cereal plant in the mid west as a maintance mechanic, dragging down over $100,000 a year. Not to bad for a bottom feeding knuckle dragger.

[Virginia Sills]

Mr. Busche, your remarks regarding enlisted personnel are despicable. In which branch did you serve? The French Foreign Legion?

The enlisted military personnel ARE the military force of our nation. These men and women sacrifice more than any officer in any branch could ever comprehend.

I proudly served as a Non-Commissioned Officer in the US Army. I elected to separate from the Army at the end of eight years, AFTER having earned my Bachelor's Degree, with a dual major, in Business Management and Philosophy.

Upon my honorable discharge, I received a Meritorious Service Medal for my contributions to our Army and our country.

I knew of no lieutenant or captain who received the same honor upon his resignation.

Get over yourself and get a clue!

[Will Ramey]

Mr. Bushe, I'm one of those enlisted retards "that will never amount to anything but flipping burgers." While oxygen thieves like you were getting educated, the rest of us were completing your mission without you. We never had to worry though, we knew you would show up about the time to claim the credit for our work. "Your actions bring great credit to you,your unit, and the United States Army" How can punks like you see those awards on the wall and think you earned them? I make a good living as a equipment mechanic, you know, the people that make things happen. Probably better than you will make in a suit.

[Maggieb]

Has any one had any luck with vocational Rehab?