Difficulty Adjusting ... Any Advice?

First, let me state I am not looking for sympathy or criticism. This is merely my experience since being discharged. I served from September 1988 until March 2002. I have had a very difficult time adjusting to life outside of the military environment. The sense of responsibility, integrity, accountability, and work ethic does not translate well to civilians.

Having a "go-getter" mentality has given me labels by coworkers such as brown-noser, gungho hero, one-man show, etc. They don't seem to understand that many of us see a medial task the same as loading a missile on an F-15 (my personal experience)...it needs to be done right, done quickly, done safely, and done right now. I am on my sixth attempt at establishing a career since my discharge (honorable, by the way). I should add the this try has been successful so far with a promotion in the near future.

In regards to personal relationships, I have found that very few people can relate to what I have experienced. I know...not everyone can relate to putting weapons on aircraft or putting recruits through their paces in basic training. But I do get tired of the "deer in headlights" look when I do speak of those things. It gets disheartening after a while.

I have come to realize that we may be ready for the civilian world, but it's not ready for us. I firmly believe there needs to be a basic training/boot camp prior to seperation. I went through a TAP class back in 1998. I can say with confidence that most of the material is useless. Of course we need interview techniques, resume writing, "dress for success," and all that. But what about "establishing relationships with friends and coworkers" or "intergrity first, service before self, and excellence in all you do...core values not common in the civilian world"?

Enough of my ranting and raving. Good luck to those getting out and hang in there to those that are already out.

(Submitted by Michael Mills, II)

Comments

[Jose Ortiz]

Michael:

I have had similar experiences and have had to make major adjustment into my approach and expectations. Expectations being “key” here! We do bring the values that you mentioned and many in the private sector are either uncomfortable with your skills or think you have a hidden agenda.

Trying to bring processes, stability, cohesiveness and methods to improve or provide value to any organization has to be done with child like approach. Know that you are not along and I struggle with this myself.

I am not telling to compromise your values, but rather look or seek a different approach into your daily task. Supervisors, Managers and leaders are sometimes threatened with the leadership traits and managing of people that may come very easy to you since it is second nature.

Training up your managers and supervisors, even if is stressful and trivial maybe an approach you may want to take. You can then leverage your ideas and implement changes and improvement much easier.

I am actively looking for employment as the company that I gave my blood and heart to decide to sever me and support the position from another location since they are reorganizing and they can support my role internationally.

Again, I wish you well and remind you that you do have a network of colleagues that share your concerns.

[ronnie r pond]

Let me say this son. And I hope you do not take offence to the word son. I am a veteran of Vietnam. with 21 years in. I retired because I lost my patience with the people in the army not the organization. But When I retired I got Lucky and found a job I liked .So I gave it another 21 years. Yes I had Problems for the first two years . But My second wife ( My First waited until I retire then Jumped ) any way My second wife Helped me under stand that people have mines of their own. Even though I didn't like what they said or did it was not the military. so I just bit my tongue and did what I could do with out stirring up trouble. Its hard to spend time in a disciplined environment and then regress to an undisciplined environment. So the best thing I can Say is give the other guy an even break he is just trying to make a living just like you!!!.

[TSgt Jacobs, M. USAF Ret.]

Hello Michael:

Sounds like what you are seeing is all too common. I think of it as our own inability to accept a downgrade in supervisory and/or management ability.

Look, most of the guys you will wotk for from now on are incapable of passing the SKT and PFE for promotion to E5, never mind being in the position of responsibility they have. The reason is security.

When you are in the service, you never have to worry about somebody telling you that you just lost your job. You also had layers of accountability, that is your boss had a boss, and he was going to get an eval based on his people management ability. Not anymore. The main criteria is money and if your boss cans save it by dumping you, he will. That is because he is afraid of being out-sourced himself. That makes most managers self serving, which is exactly opposite to what we were taught.

I was very fortunate to find a good job at a good company after working for several turnips. I've had to re-invent myself several times, too.

All the military skills will come to the surface and you will earn a good reputation on the job.

I believe that the key is to find a boss worth working for and then to stay with him or her as long as you can. Probably the biggest mistake I've made in 10 years of retirement is leaving a job with a good boss because I wanted a bigger challenge.

Final shot: Most companies are not worth sacrificing for. Do your job well but don't ever think that loyalty will be rewarded. You will never see another Commendation Medal. Quit trying to earn one.

[Cpl. DeWeese, USMC]

Michael, By all means do keep working hard and keep your dedication to the work you do, whatever it is. I have worked through so much strive and the biggest reward is the self-respect that you feel inside when a job is done to the best of your abilities. You will find ways to adjust to the new "system" and by all means don't be afraid to start a business. Don't forget that alot of your abilities to accomplish missions continue to be the same. Drive is not a bad thing. I'm thankful for all of the training that we received to help us deal with adversity. Civilians don't get that at all. Take the discipline that you received and go back to school. Better yourself as much as you can, you will enjoy the challenge. Don't forget your fellow veterans and join one of the vet associations.

[Jake Jacobowitz]

Mike:

With all due respect, if the sort of event you describe has happened to you more than twice, it probably is time to talk to any co-worker or other person who has observed you on the job whom you truly trust. They can give you some feedback on how you come across to others. What to us in the military seems like self-confidence and drive can come across to co-workers and especially supervisors as arrogance and a "Know it all" attitude. I've been everything from a garbage man to a special advisor to the head of a major governmental organization, and one thing a working life that started at the age of 12 has taught me--you have to fit in with the culture you're working within. You might really learn something surprising from a frank talk with your closest friend, a current or former co-worker whom you can trust, or your significant other--there may be some things that you are doing, saying, or projecting by body language that could be part of the problem you describe.
This is from a retired Colonel Old Enough to be Your Grandpa

[Michael R. Anderson]

Michael

I know exactly what you are talking about. I had the same problems when I returned from Vietnam and left the Army in 1970. I returned to the Army in 1973 and stayed until 1990 when I retired from military service. Guess what, nothing has changed. It is my own personal experience that it is very hard to instill a sense of urgency in people who have not had the benefit of military experience. This is especially true if they are being paid by the hour. I have now retired from state service in law enforcement and I now work in the oil business. The best I can tell you is to continue with what you know and do the best job possible at whatever endeavor you partake of. If you do the best job you are capable of then only good things will happen.

Michael R. Anderson
United States Army
Retired

[Amanda]

Micael,

Reading your post really hit home. I know exactly what you are going through. I was I am having the same problems. I was honorably discharged from the navy in 2003 and it sounds like we've had the same work experience. I was (am) an ae and ive had to be a part of the weapons team. YOUR RIGHT... no one gets it unless they've done it. As far as relationships it is so hard. I recently slpit up with my fiance. You know when things just arent right. About the TAP class, I went to Tap class over a year before I got out of the navy. We were on deployement and I came back in June, 3 weeks later I am out of the Navy. What do you do with yourself? How do real people really work, or take care of things. It is not the same as we do. I agree that there should be better transitions programs and ongoing programs for veterans. I would love to be able to give advice to other people getting out and thinking that things will be all good. Maybe we could start one!! I will keep you in my prayers..

Amanda L. Bowling
United States Navy

[Dave Timko]

Micheal,
I relate totally!
However, I have found a group of ex military that have figured it out.Must be invited in so we need to contact each other.
Dave timko
US Army

[Guy Cherry]

You will always be amazed by the difference here on the outside. Being a veteran in this society only brings you to the eye opener of lack of integrity in everything you encounter, from getting that new job with a awesome company rated to be the best place to work. Its then after the smoke clears and the fog lifts you feel the way you do. And that is you served your country for THIS. I am in the middle of a dispute with a claim on my homeowners ins. policy. And by the way got it with a V.A. loan and they are treating me like I am stealing from them. Sometimes I wish I never made the transition. Back to society, the stuff our grandfathers and fathers were made of (morals) seems to be slipping. Make a commitment to a civilan and follow through with it and there you get the deer in the headlight look. They think your from another planet.

[AMES]

You know I myself have felt lost in the civilian world. But I also do my best to understand that not all of my friends, family, and co-workers will understand where I come from when I view situations from "my foxhole'. Civilian life is not all about watching the man to your left and right and knowing they have your back as well. Military life is different from that. To me life off of the Military Rez is not as orderly or friendly. When I was in I felt I held a certain prestige over the civilian population. But when I became a Vet I felt I had lost that. I did not feel as useful as I did before or that what I was doing counted for anything. My job in the Army counted for something. I didn't really know if anyone outside of the military really had my back. I felt alone. Sure people would expressed the pride they had in my service and that I was a Vet but some how it felt different now. I have learn that some of that was just what I 'wanted' to see. My friends and family are still proud of me and my service. For they have not changed but it is I, myself who has changed. I have changed for the better, more responsible, older, wiser, and someone who has seen and visited different cultures and had to interact with them. Sure, some of the things my friends may say shock me a little bit, but they are just being who they are. We as Vets have changed and are the better for it. We can't place blame on are friends and family who have not been where we have been. For we know if they had, then they would be able to understand us. Older Vets our our best resource for knowledge and understanding.
Be advised that this has been my experience and what I have learn. But it may help someone else who is going through what I did.
Lee

[Disgruntled Dogfaced Squid]

Hey Bro,

I totally agree with you ( as most Veterans do ) that it is DIFFICULT to say the least, to relate our experiences to 'civies' and sand crabs!

I was in the USN and US Army and I can tell you after 23 years of service that Civilians live in their own little world ... in the USA.

Aussies, Brits, and Thais show us more respect that our own countrymen.

That's a fact!!!

I still remember pulling into Perth, Australia on a ship and tossing my white hat to a BABE! She wined me, dined me, and made Love to me! Great night.

I pulled into Norfolk on the same ship and a BABE almost ran me over in the cross walk and cursed me out!

The Truth Hurts! Our Country SUCKS when it comes to appreciation of the military. They don't care for the most part. Only a few give a HOOT about veterans.

DDS

[Disgruntled Dogfaced Squid]

AFTER THOUGHT ... try joining the American Legion or VFW ! I have both and its a Great Way to let off 'steam' ! Bounce off a shipmate or a fellow soldier. Ciao!

Praying for ya brother! take care.

DDS
Veterans Counselor

[Lynn]

Hi, my husband got out of the Navy in 2004. He has had the same difficulties. He has changed careers 4 times so far, but most times is because of company cutbacks, but he would come home very disheartened many days because he still works as hard as he did in the Navy. The guys he works with just don't have the high standards or work ethics he is used to. He still hasn't adjusted to civilian life, but he does keep in touch with some other ex-military guys and I am also former military so he always has me to talk to.

[Jack Jakubik]

I am a Viet Nam vet, who came home to the slings and arrows of a public who disliked a war and the military personnel who fought it. I wandered mentally, as it was hard to find someone to talk about it with, or would even want to. After the years went by, I found comradeship in The American Legion. I not only found people who shared my experiences, but I found an organization who offered help to all veterans. Today, I'm the Finance Officer for The Department of Nevada, and a strong veteran's advocate. I have been in forums with recently returned vets who know nothing about organizations like ours. They are the doe caught in the headlights. I have taken many of them aside and explained what our Service Officers and members do, to show their support. Sometimes it's just an attentive ear, from someone that's been there and done that. I have expressed my concern that the military falls short, when separating all these fine young people, by not informing them that such Military Fraternal Organizations exist, on their behalf. Get involved with one of these organizations. Sit down and talk to friends who know what you are going through, because they went through it too. You will find solace as well as suggestions, to help you through a difficult time in your life. And if no one has said it lately, thank you for your service.

Regards,
Jack Jakubik

[Lucky LaChance]

Hang in there. Vets are out there who understand you, and what you are going through. We are in places where you might least expect us. I too struggled in my first civilian job. I landed a great "manager" job in the healthcare insurance industry of all places. I spent 21 years as an infantry and intelligence officer. Unfortunately I quickly realized titles were superfluous. I only managed myself in a chaotic and very political environment where noone understood the meaning of teamwork, planning, or leadership. I decided to leave and bounced around to 3 other positions before I landed in a company that actually was seeking the qualities I brought into the company. The CEO valued the military, and while not a vet, he had seen what the military was doing for his son. After a couple of years, I am doing great - - but I did have to learn the ropes of a new environment. Military folks are great at adapting - - practice that art brother and you'll go a long way

[Charlie Brown]

I think most of us felt that way when we left the military. I think the folks on the outside don't understand or feel threatened by what we represent. If you are patient they will come to value what you bring to the organization. I am a counselor now and if I can help you, please contact me. In the meantime as someone else suggested, hook up with your local VFW or American Legion group

[Jamal]

Most civilians will never know what a structured organization is. A militaristic organization incorporates a structured lifestyle that is unique only to the military from our appearance, our interactions between each other; to the way we approach problems and tasks that's done systematically, efficiently, and with intensity. Most military members are leaders because of the environment that we are exposed to and that's what is missing from the civilian sector. We have to either go into business for ourselves, hard-charge our own path in an existing business or serve in jobs or activities that have some sense of purpose then move on when the purpose is gone. I keep up with my military buddies that are out and they just cant find that bond amongst civilians and that sense of purpose in the civilian side. Another thing to note is that we understand that we are willing to die for this country and for each if other if need be and not many civilians can relate to you that way.
A post-active duty network is available and tapping in to what is already available is the key. Time and time again I have been able to move forward with what I want by linking with other vets in different civilian sectors and it turned out good all the time.
Just as college fraternities have their networks and hookups so do we as vets (no matter what branch).
Working within the military community (vets, active-duty)is much better than battling your way into a civilian community which has its own standards. Don't lower your standards/morals/etc. by blending in however take the good qualities from the civilian sector and add to your military foundation.

[Jamal]

Most civilians will never know what a structured organization is. A militaristic organization incorporates a structured lifestyle that is unique only to the military from our appearance, our interactions between each other; to the way we approach problems and tasks that's done systematically, efficiently, and with intensity. Most military members are leaders because of the environment that we are exposed to and that's what is missing from the civilian sector. We have to either go into business for ourselves, hard-charge our own path in an existing business or serve in jobs or activities that have some sense of purpose then move on when the purpose is gone. I keep up with my military buddies that are out and they just cant find that bond amongst civilians and that sense of purpose in the civilian side. Another thing to note is that we understand that we are willing to die for this country and for each if other if need be and not many civilians can relate to you that way.
A post-active duty network is available and tapping in to what is already available is the key. Time and time again I have been able to move forward with what I want by linking with other vets in different civilian sectors and it turned out good all the time.
Just as college fraternities have their networks and hookups so do we as vets (no matter what branch).
Working within the military community (vets, active-duty)is much better than battling your way into a civilian community which has its own standards. Don't lower your standards/morals/etc. by blending in however take the good qualities from the civilian sector and add to your military foundation.

[Melchicedec Palacios]

The same thing is happening to me, and I did not know that it was happening to someone else. I thought I was the only one who experience that kind of situation. Thanks for sharing. I am just trying to understand this civilian life, giving it a chance because yes, we were taught core values and seeing that in the civilian world that doesn't exist is like dissapointing. Anyways, we have to show them about the values and maybe just maybe one day they will realize that what they do is wrong and hopefully they will begin to live by the values.

[Don]

In 98 I got out after eight years as a Marine, and remember all to well the years it took me to down-shift my actions to attempt to fit the civilian mold. And the frustration still bubbles up from time to time. But that was the key, to down-shift my expectations. We got a crash course in the largest of all responsibilities- the safe keeping of our fellow marines (insert your branch there, but it still applies). That course also demanded of us to be faster and harder to maintain that in the worst of environments; and that simply is not an experience that the majority of the working world can relate to. The other thing that has helped me is to maintain contact with others I served with, and we call each other as needed to vent, or just plain catch up. I hope this helps.

[Mo-Mo]

I know how you feel. I got out of the Navy in '03. I was Aviatio Ordnance too (F/A-18's). When I got out it ws the same for me. It still is. Civilians won't get us. That's just something that you will have to except. And if you want to "fit in" in the civilian world then you will have to adopt their philosophies. I don't know about you, but I don't like that idea. I am now a DoD contractor for the Army. Everyone I work with is a vet. That is great. Try that.

[Dawn]

After 20 years in the Air Force, I retired in 2005. I went to work for a university doing tech. support for one of their departments. The hiring officials were concerned about my service in support of OEF/OIF and potentially having PTSD. Yes, I deployed to Saudi Arabia and Qatar but did not experience any battle. As time went by, I started to get deppressed and frustrated. There was no comraderie and I felt alone. Fortunately, I got a contractor position at the Air Force base I retired from. The culture between the civilian and military workplace is like night and day. If you can, I suggest seeking employment with a Federal agency such at the VA. I am now employed by the VA and I love it. A good portion of VA employees are veterans so your frame of reference is similar. There is comraderie and support amogst co-workers. I wish everyone the best as they navigate their way through the civilian workforce.

[Michael M.]

First let me say "Thank you" for your service, to all the Vietnam vets that responded.
I see a LOT of empathy from fellow vets. The transition experience is the same all over. Here is the key:
1)You have to find an industry you enjoy working in/ with first.
2) Find a mentor within the industry! immediately..someone outside your immediate sphere of influence (IE Chain of command). Most in this position welcome lending go-getters advice.
3) Go back to school! Even if it's part-time, on-line or night school..you will learn the most important aspect-Building relationships.. can't emphasize this enough.
4) Don't rub your integrity, ethics, and organizational skills in peoples faces. Simply lead by example and "to thine own self be true"..no matter what is taking place around you. There are shady people in every business at all levels. Remain steadfast-fair winds and following seas.
-Cmdr USN (ret.)

[Leann Katz]

I know exactly how you feel it is tough you could always go into civil service with your old branch that is what I did and it was great. Or, you could go to school full time the GI BIll increases in AUG (well it supposed to +BAH). If you can't do that maybe go overseas and do some contract work for a year or two. Great money but you probably won't find much of what your looking for there either. If you haven't done so do a profile on militaryhire.com that is how I was recruited to work in Kuwait. Now I get to go to school full time with GI Bill and the money I saved up.

Good Luck!

[Leann Katz]

I know exactly how you feel it is tough you could always go into civil service with your old branch that is what I did and it was great. Or, you could go to school full time the GI BIll increases in AUG (well it supposed to +BAH). If you can't do that maybe go overseas and do some contract work for a year or two. Great money but you probably won't find much of what your looking for there either. If you haven't done so do a profile on militaryhire.com that is how I was recruited to work in Kuwait. Now I get to go to school full time with GI Bill and the money I saved up.

Good Luck!

[Ed]

I went from the Navy (Gunner's Mate) straight into the computer technical field back in 1993. I was lucky enough to find a career that placed high value in attention to detail, follow through, troubleshooting ability, and the concept that there's a 'production' system that must be up.
It was my communication style that kept me isolated from the other technicians until I learned to speak in a way that facilitated interaction. I had to shake the habit of verbally commanding people and instead engage my coworkers by allowing them to share in the diagnoses and troubleshooting. I even thanked them for their (sometimes non-existent) assistance. This opened people up and allowed them to see me as a team player again. I also worked with several folks who had the balls to tell me when I was being overbearing. It was tough to hear, but it allowed me to balance the military drive with civilian expectations.

Now, as others have commented you may not find the same level of integrity and work ethic in your co-workers. That's fine. Those military core values will allow you to stand apart from them without alienating your co-workers and stressing the management by stirring-up the 9-5'ers.
Also note that any advances you make in the area of communications will also be well received by a potential partner. Tone the intensity down, but retain your values.

[Ed]

I went from the Navy (Gunner's Mate) straight into the computer technical field back in 1993. I was lucky enough to find a career that placed high value in attention to detail, followthrough, troubleshooting ability, and the concept that there's a 'production' system that must be up.
It was my communication style that kept me isolated from the other technicians until I learned to speak in a way that facilitated interaction. I had to shake the habit of verbally commanding people and instead engage my coworkers by allowing them to share in the diagnoses and troubleshooting. I even thanked them for their (sometimes non-existant) assistance. This opened people up and allowed them to see me as a team player again. I also worked with several folks who had the balls to tell me when I was being overbearing. It was tough to hear, but it allowed me to balance the military drive with civilian expectations.

Now, as others have commented you may not find the same level of integrity and work ethic in your co-workers. That's fine. Those military core values will allow you to stand apart from them without alienating your co-workers and stressing the management by stirring-up the 9-5'ers.
Please note that any advances you make in the area of communications will also be well received by a potential partner. Tone the intensity down, but retain your values.

[Ed]

I went from the Navy (Gunner's Mate) straight into the computer technical field back in 1993. I was lucky enough to find a career that placed high value in attention to detail, followthrough, troubleshooting ability, and the concept that there's a 'production' system that must be up.
It was my communication style that kept me isolated from the other technicians until I learned to speak in a way that facilitated interaction. I had to shake the habit of verbally commanding people and instead engage my coworkers by allowing them to share in the diagnoses and troubleshooting. I even thanked them for their (sometimes non-existant) assistance. This opened people up and allowed them to see me as a team player again. I also worked with several folks who had the balls to tell me when I was being overbearing. It was tough to hear, but it allowed me to balance the military drive with civilian expectations.

Now, as others have commented you may not find the same level of integrity and work ethic in your co-workers. That's fine. Those military core values will allow you to stand apart from them without alienating your co-workers and stressing the management by stirring-up the 9-5'ers.
Please note that any advances you make in the area of communications will also be well received by a potential partner. Tone the intensity down, but retain your values.

[Ed]

I went from the Navy (Gunner's Mate) straight into the computer technical field back in 1993. I was lucky enough to find a career that placed high value in attention to detail, followthrough, troubleshooting ability, and the concept that there's a 'production' system that must be up.
It was my communication style that kept me isolated from the other technicians until I learned to speak in a way that facilitated interaction. I had to shake the habit of verbally commanding people and instead engage my coworkers by allowing them to share in the diagnoses and troubleshooting. I even thanked them for their (sometimes non-existant) assistance. This opened people up and allowed them to see me as a team player again. I also worked with several folks who had the balls to tell me when I was being overbearing. It was tough to hear, but it allowed me to balance the military drive with civilian expectations.

Now, as others have commented you may not find the same level of integrity and work ethic in your co-workers. That's fine. Those military core values will allow you to stand apart from them without alienating your co-workers and stressing the management by stirring-up the 9-5'ers.
Please note that any advances you make in the area of communications will also be well received by a potential partner. Tone the intensity down, but retain your values.

[JoAnn Queeney]

Iknow exactly what you are going through. Thank you for writing; I have just about given up looking for another meaningful job because I couldn't place what went wrong in my past one. I agree in TAP they need to tell you that you will not find the values and security you found in the military in a civilian job; do a good job but don't expect anything to be done by the book, meeting standards and following directives. (Directives?? They don't have any!! and if they do,they don't read them so you shouldn't either.) If you do things the way they are in the "book" you will most likely run into problems-You must be a know it all or are trying to show someone else up!! We know that we are just using the core values and work ethic we groomed in the military, but they never learned these ethics, so to them you are trying to take their job or make them look bad. I guess I need to adjust my own standards to be able to survive in a decent paying civilian job. (How Sad!!)

[JoAnn Queeney]

Iknow exactly what you are going through. Thank you for writing; I have just about given up looking for another meaningful job because I couldn't place what went wrong in my past one. I agree in TAP they need to tell you that you will not find the values and security you found in the military in a civilian job; do a good job but don't expect anything to be done by the book, meeting standards and following directives. (Directives?? They don't have any!! and if they do,they don't read them so you shouldn't either.) If you do things the way they are in the "book" you will most likely run into problems-You must be a know it all or are trying to show someone else up!! We know that we are just using the core values and work ethic we groomed in the military, but they never learned these ethics, so to them you are trying to take their job or make them look bad. I guess I need to adjust my own standards to be able to survive in a decent paying civilian job. (How Sad!!)

[JoAnn Queeney]

I know exactly what you are going through. Thank you for writing; I have just about given up looking for another meaningful job because I couldn't place what went wrong in my past one. I agree in TAP they need to tell you that you will not find the values and security you found in the military in a civilian job; do a good job but don't expect anything to be done by the book, meeting standards and following directives. (Directives?? They don't have any!! and if they do,they don't read them so you shouldn't either.) If you do things the way they are in the "book" you will most likely run into problems-You must be a know it all or are trying to show someone else up!! We know that we are just using the core values and work ethic we groomed in the military, but they never learned these ethics, so to them you are trying to take their job or make them look bad. I guess I need to adjust my own standards to be able to survive in a decent paying civilian job. (How Sad!!)

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Michael Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[Doug]

Hello Mr. Mills,

First, thank you for serving your country and for giving us nearly 14-years of your life in guarding our freedoms and our American way of life. Second, although our country has its flaws, it is still "hands-down" the best country in the world, and being a U.S. citizen is a great privilege.

As a retired Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer, I was surrounded by professionals--just the type of guys & gals that you described in your comments. Like you, I have experienced the same post military career dissatisfaction. There is nothing wrong with you or with your thinking. What you have experienced is real. The leadership traits and high level of performance that you were accustomed to and demonstrated for nearly 14-years do not translate very well in the civilian job market--especially in lower paying jobs that require little training or experience. Stay away from jobs where you are easily replaced and turnover is high. If you are willing to go back to school, there are numerous careers that a person of your caliber would excel in. The careers that I have in mind are careers that demand a high level of commitment and training and most of all "heart": firefighter, police officer, probation officer, Veteran's Administration Vocational Rehab Counselor, pilot, paralegal, criminal law attorney, EMT, nurse, physical therapy professional, speech therapy professional, doctor, occupational and industrial safety and health professional, minister, pastor, or Chaplin, missionary, school teacher, engineer, and more. The trick is to focus on careers that require excellence instead of mediocrity, and careers that provide a high level of satisfaction to those who work in them.

I have worked with and around plenty of men and women that do what you did in the military, and for that reason, I know that you are a diamond in the rough: smart, quick learner, quick on your feet, you possess fantastic attention to detail, you are not afraid of a challenge, unmatched integrity, and a superb leader. You have a lot to offer, but first, you must choose a career that is challenging, demanding, and requires a high level of skill and training. Michael, you're one of the good guys... for that reason, I hope and pray that you achieve your goals regardless of how long it takes.

Respectfully submitted,

Doug

[glenglish]

being a female i think we are treated different also when we get out. the younger you look the worse it is too. the lack of respect and disbelief you are even old enough to have served is ridiculous in the civilian world. when i try to use my military experience or show my ability to get things done right oh it so comes across as pushy or over zealous. sometimes you do have to do as others have suggested try to find one you trust and have them observe you or even sit down maybe with your co workers if you can and explain your concerns and you dont mean to step on peoples toes but how military mentality is different and maybe give an example to them. who knows sometimes people just need a different view.
my ex husband is struggling so much with jobs. they too seem to be lacking in respect or integrity. he does so much better when he is active duty. we both came in at age 17 and 18 and he is a lifer and a very hard worker military and civilian wise amybe thats his problem but its who he is. i may be his ex but i dont like seeing him struggle. what people dont understand is lifer's mentalities are totally different than some little peons who just want the college money and see ya. thats part of the problem to in civilian work force. they see the quiet hard workers who represent the military in a good light then you have the punks who make people question the military cuz of these knuckleheads! we have 3 kids and jobs dont respect that but that we were used to from the military attitude we 1st got in the 90's that 'if we wanted you to have a family we would have issued you one in your seabag' i used to think that was funny not anymore. he was an ironworker before he got deployed this last time and came back to a bunch of direlects (sp?) needless to say he isnt one now! in the military you learn to CYA but you also learn to watch out for one another in risky situations but not in this case. he would rather go back to iraq than deal with the lack of care or respect these people have. he has a temp job now that doesnt pay him anywhere near what he is worth and they give him crap all the time because he 'didnt go to certain civilian training in a classroom' no instead he got real life training in the field doing more than they could ever imagine doing or seeing. he suffers from PTSD but tries so hard to maintain because he doesnt want to be 'weak' to employers or the military.
you have so much experience and to offer probably that maybe friends, coworkers and significant others just might never get it. ie: ive never had it made or even had more than 40,000 coming in so when rich people make comments about their 'perfect private schooled kids' and 'o my car i ordered was the wrong color' it makes me want to scream and hit them with a reality stick, they just cant put themselves in our place cause they have never even had to face the things we have.
just remember at the end of the day you can go to sleep knowing you are REAL and the person YOU want to be not what OTHERS expect you to be. keep strong and try websites and the VA and DOD and maybe GOD if he is a part of your beliefs! hook up with the VFW and American legion too like others have said. not to insult anyone who is a member of those groups but there is always someone older than us who has a story to tell there too even if its for the 20th time. it feels good just to have something in common. last remember we live in a generation of instant gratification and find a way to the top by all means even if it shady so integrity is hard to come by and not expected like in our parents age! good luck!

[glenglish]

being a female i think we are treated different also when we get out. the younger you look the worse it is too. the lack of respect and disbelief you are even old enough to have served is ridiculous in the civilian world. when i try to use my military experience or show my ability to get things done right oh it so comes across as pushy or over zealous. sometimes you do have to do as others have suggested try to find one you trust and have them observe you or even sit down maybe with your co workers if you can and explain your concerns and you dont mean to step on peoples toes but how military mentality is different and maybe give an example to them. who knows sometimes people just need a different view.
my ex husband is struggling so much with jobs. they too seem to be lacking in respect or integrity. he does so much better when he is active duty. we both came in at age 17 and 18 and he is a lifer and a very hard worker military and civilian wise amybe thats his problem but its who he is. i may be his ex but i dont like seeing him struggle. what people dont understand is lifer's mentalities are totally different than some little peons who just want the college money and see ya. thats part of the problem to in civilian work force. they see the quiet hard workers who represent the military in a good light then you have the punks who make people question the military cuz of these knuckleheads! we have 3 kids and jobs dont respect that but that we were used to from the military attitude we 1st got in the 90's that 'if we wanted you to have a family we would have issued you one in your seabag' i used to think that was funny not anymore. he was an ironworker before he got deployed this last time and came back to a bunch of direlects (sp?) needless to say he isnt one now! in the military you learn to CYA but you also learn to watch out for one another in risky situations but not in this case. he would rather go back to iraq than deal with the lack of care or respect these people have. he has a temp job now that doesnt pay him anywhere near what he is worth and they give him crap all the time because he 'didnt go to certain civilian training in a classroom' no instead he got real life training in the field doing more than they could ever imagine doing or seeing. he suffers from PTSD but tries so hard to maintain because he doesnt want to be 'weak' to employers or the military.
you have so much experience and to offer probably that maybe friends, coworkers and significant others just might never get it. ie: ive never had it made or even had more than 40,000 coming in so when rich people make comments about their 'perfect private schooled kids' and 'o my car i ordered was the wrong color' it makes me want to scream and hit them with a reality stick, they just cant put themselves in our place cause they have never even had to face the things we have.
just remember at the end of the day you can go to sleep knowing you are REAL and the person YOU want to be not what OTHERS expect you to be. keep strong and try websites and the VA and DOD and maybe GOD if he is a part of your beliefs! hook up with the VFW and American legion too like others have said. not to insult anyone who is a member of those groups but there is always someone older than us who has a story to tell there too even if its for the 20th time. it feels good just to have something in common. last remember we live in a generation of instant gratification and find a way to the top by all means even if it shady so integrity is hard to come by and not expected like in our parents age! good luck!

[William D. Jones]

Never Let up. I got out in 2005.Was in the Army from 99 to 05 ( Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan almost back to back 1st Armor style) Anyway. I new transitioning wasnt going to be easy. I picked an overnight job. fortunately the first job I applied for was across the street where my dad lived and I got hired. Overnight was a good deal. Folks work hard and you finish the job you go home. Good team environment. I was fortunate. After 2 years I was recommended and accepted the responsibility of department supervisor.
At first it was rough no one knew me and Id worked in the same buildin g for 2 years. But I had to take it as a blank sheet/ an opportunity. These are the moments to let people know who you are and what your about. to set your standard and stick to it. I now run a crew of 6. They may not like my standard but they know it. The times they falter it ends up in front of other managers. So they tend to duck into my standards for there own protection and own self being.
Point of this is its not much different out here from being an NCO. You just got to understand. Your getting new recruits or draftees to your way of thinking. Your got to be the nco and drill sergeant. Just tactfully and little at a time. Pick a value a week and ride your team hard about it as a coworker or "battlebuddy" or as The SUpervisor "NCO/Officer". Always remember "Evil prevails when good people do nothing". Also we deserve our piece of America we fought for it and lived. A little bit os discipline never hurt anybody. We should have sent Drill Sergeants / Instructors to Bear Stearns and locked the door with all the employees in there.So they could learn what a Bear and Stearn really means.

[Jim B.]

Dear Friend,
I am reading through the responses and hope you are gaining the impression that you are not alone in this. Many of us struggle with what is a completely new environment, the "civilian" environment. As a Marine I was taught many things, but will try to make a point out of THE most trivial: "leave this place cleaner than when you got here." When I was hired at my present company, I came in early and when I started to make coffee at the coffemaker in the morning, I would put down a napkin in front of the pot to make sure spillage did not dry out and cake onto the countertop. It was nasty when I first got there, and without thinking about it, I simply thought it made sense. A year later when I have business outside the office and come in after someone else makes coffee, I walk in and pour a mug next to a coffee-splotched napkin someone else has laid down before me. Trivial, I know, but here is the thing: we were instilled a discipline, we have an unspoken set of values only someone who has been through it will understand. The extra mile you go through, described by your coworkers as "are you trying to show us up?" comes naturally to you, and to a lot of us, and to be honest, I wish that you worked for my company too. It is genuinely sad that some people do not understand why someone would do something as trite picking up a candy wrapper tossed in an otherwise empty elevator to toss it in the trash, or holding the door open for someone else when you don't know who the hell they are. Just because you go the extra mile in the small things does not make you a brown-noser, it means that you carry the values you were expected to, and you best be PROUD OF IT. Don't dwell on why other people DON'T do something, as it only gives you a set of gray hairs. My advice is: keep doing what makes you an exceptional part of the team, and some day you'll walk in and smile at the smallest change in others you never even thought of. I worked for some companies that were just plain GARBAGE before I found one that even though they had not been in my shoes (corframs/jungle boots/go-fasters...), at least valued and respected where I came from when they didn't fully understand the "why" behind it all. I hope you find professional happiness too, and if you're lucky, you'll see grand and meaningful change beyond...napkins. Just know that people are resistant to change, but they come around. Don't let them get you down.

As far as the sense of urgency, I could bring a stack of chopped wood, but still couldn't light a fire hot enough under the ... of a few key individuals. <--still working on an answer to this one, and I'll take any reasonable suggestions...

[Jim B.]

Dear Friend,
I am reading through the responses and hope you are gaining the impression that you are not alone in this. Many of us struggle with what is a completely new environment, the "civilian" environment. As a Marine I was taught many things, but will try to make a point out of THE most trivial: "leave this place cleaner than when you got here." When I was hired at my present company, I came in early and when I started to make coffee at the coffemaker in the morning, I would put down a napkin in front of the pot to make sure spillage did not dry out and cake onto the countertop. It was nasty when I first got there, and without thinking about it, I simply thought it made sense. A year later when I have business outside the office and come in after someone else makes coffee, I walk in and pour a mug next to a coffee-splotched napkin someone else has laid down before me. Trivial, I know, but here is the thing: we were instilled a discipline, we have an unspoken set of values only someone who has been through it will understand. The extra mile you go through, described by your coworkers as "are you trying to show us up?" comes naturally to you, and to a lot of us, and to be honest, I wish that you worked for my company too. It is genuinely sad that some people do not understand why someone would do something as trite picking up a candy wrapper tossed in an otherwise empty elevator to toss it in the trash, or holding the door open for someone else when you don't know who the hell they are. Just because you go the extra mile in the small things does not make you a brown-noser, it means that you carry the values you were expected to, and you best be PROUD OF IT. Don't dwell on why other people DON'T do something, as it only gives you a set of gray hairs. My advice is: keep doing what makes you an exceptional part of the team, and some day you'll walk in and smile at the smallest change in others you never even thought of. I worked for some companies that were just plain GARBAGE before I found one that even though they had not been in my shoes (corframs/jungle boots/go-fasters...), at least valued and respected where I came from when they didn't fully understand the "why" behind it all. I hope you find professional happiness too, and if you're lucky, you'll see grand and meaningful change beyond...napkins. Just know that people are resistant to change, but they come around. Don't let them get you down.

As far as the sense of urgency, I could bring a stack of chopped wood, but still couldn't light a fire hot enough under the ... of a few key individuals. <--still working on an answer to this one, and I'll take any reasonable suggestions...

[Jim B.]

Dear Friend,
I am reading through the responses and hope you are gaining the impression that you are not alone in this. Many of us struggle with what is a completely new environment, the "civilian" environment. As a Marine I was taught many things, but will try to make a point out of THE most trivial: "leave this place cleaner than when you got here." When I was hired at my present company, I came in early and when I started to make coffee at the coffemaker in the morning, I would put down a napkin in front of the pot to make sure spillage did not dry out and cake onto the countertop. It was nasty when I first got there, and without thinking about it, I simply thought it made sense. A year later when I have business outside the office and come in after someone else makes coffee, I walk in and pour a mug next to a coffee-splotched napkin someone else has laid down before me. Trivial, I know, but here is the thing: we were instilled a discipline, we have an unspoken set of values only someone who has been through it will understand. The extra mile you go through, described by your coworkers as "are you trying to show us up?" comes naturally to you, and to a lot of us, and to be honest, I wish that you worked for my company too. It is genuinely sad that some people do not understand why someone would do something as trite picking up a candy wrapper tossed in an otherwise empty elevator to toss it in the trash, or holding the door open for someone else when you don't know who the hell they are. Just because you go the extra mile in the small things does not make you a brown-noser, it means that you carry the values you were expected to, and you best be PROUD OF IT. Don't dwell on why other people DON'T do something, as it only gives you a set of gray hairs. My advice is: keep doing what makes you an exceptional part of the team, and some day you'll walk in and smile at the smallest change in others you never even thought of. I worked for some companies that were just plain GARBAGE before I found one that even though they had not been in my shoes (corframs/jungle boots/go-fasters...), at least valued and respected where I came from when they didn't fully understand the "why" behind it all. I hope you find professional happiness too, and if you're lucky, you'll see grand and meaningful change beyond...napkins. Just know that people are resistant to change, but they come around. Don't let them get you down.

As far as the sense of urgency, I could bring a stack of chopped wood, but still couldn't light a fire hot enough under the ... of a few key individuals. <--still working on an answer to this one, and I'll take any reasonable suggestions...

[Jim B.]

Dear Friend,
I am reading through the responses and hope you are gaining the impression that you are not alone in this. Many of us struggle with what is a completely new environment, the "civilian" environment. As a Marine I was taught many things, but will try to make a point out of THE most trivial: "leave this place cleaner than when you got here." When I was hired at my present company, I came in early and when I started to make coffee at the coffemaker in the morning, I would put down a napkin in front of the pot to make sure spillage did not dry out and cake onto the countertop. It was nasty when I first got there, and without thinking about it, I simply thought it made sense. A year later when I have business outside the office and come in after someone else makes coffee, I walk in and pour a mug next to a coffee-splotched napkin someone else has laid down before me. Trivial, I know, but here is the thing: we were instilled a discipline, we have an unspoken set of values only someone who has been through it will understand. The extra mile you go through, described by your coworkers as "are you trying to show us up?" comes naturally to you, and to a lot of us, and to be honest, I wish that you worked for my company too. It is genuinely sad that some people do not understand why someone would do something as trite picking up a candy wrapper tossed in an otherwise empty elevator to toss it in the trash, or holding the door open for someone else when you don't know who the hell they are. Just because you go the extra mile in the small things does not make you a brown-noser, it means that you carry the values you were expected to, and you best be PROUD OF IT. Don't dwell on why other people DON'T do something, as it only gives you a set of gray hairs. My advice is: keep doing what makes you an exceptional part of the team, and some day you'll walk in and smile at the smallest change in others you never even thought of. I worked for some companies that were just plain GARBAGE before I found one that even though they had not been in my shoes (corframs/jungle boots/go-fasters...), at least valued and respected where I came from when they didn't fully understand the "why" behind it all. I hope you find professional happiness too, and if you're lucky, you'll see grand and meaningful change beyond...napkins. Just know that people are resistant to change, but they come around. Don't let them get you down.

As far as the sense of urgency, I could bring a stack of chopped wood, but still couldn't light a fire hot enough under the ... of a few key individuals. <--still working on an answer to this one, and I'll take any reasonable suggestions...

[Sergeant Jim B.]

Dear Friend,
I am reading through the responses and hope you are gaining the impression that you are not alone in this. Many of us struggle with what is a completely new environment, the "civilian" environment. As a Marine I was taught many things, but will try to make a point out of THE most trivial: "leave this place cleaner than when you got here." When I was hired at my present company, I came in early and when I started to make coffee at the coffemaker in the morning, I would put down a napkin in front of the pot to make sure spillage did not dry out and cake onto the countertop. It was nasty when I first got there, and without thinking about it, I simply thought it made sense. A year later when I have business outside the office and come in after someone else makes coffee, I walk in and pour a mug next to a coffee-splotched napkin someone else has laid down before me. Trivial, I know, but here is the thing: we were instilled a discipline, we have an unspoken set of values only someone who has been through it will understand. The extra mile you go through, described by your coworkers as "are you trying to show us up?" comes naturally to you, and to a lot of us, and to be honest, I wish that you worked for my company too. It is genuinely sad that some people do not understand why someone would do something as trite picking up a candy wrapper tossed in an otherwise empty elevator to toss it in the trash, or holding the door open for someone else when you don't know who the hell they are. Just because you go the extra mile in the small things does not make you a brown-noser, it means that you carry the values you were expected to, and you best be PROUD OF IT. Don't dwell on why other people DON'T do something, as it only gives you a set of gray hairs. My advice is: keep doing what makes you an exceptional part of the team, and some day you'll walk in and smile at the smallest change in others you never even thought of. I worked for some companies that were just plain GARBAGE before I found one that even though they had not been in my shoes (corframs/jungle boots/go-fasters...), at least valued and respected where I came from when they didn't fully understand the "why" behind it all. I hope you find professional happiness too, and if you're lucky, you'll see grand and meaningful change beyond...napkins. Just know that people are resistant to change, but they come around. Don't let them get you down.

As far as the sense of urgency, I could bring a stack of chopped wood, but still couldn't light a fire hot enough under the ... of a few key individuals. <--still working on an answer to this one, and I'll take any reasonable suggestions...