Vets Stick Together at Any Company

I went from being responsible for a multimillion dollar aircraft to working at an office that did not trust me with the code for the copy machine. I got out in 1995, after serving in Desert Shield and Storm, and was not ready for the transition. The Air Force sent me to a couple of days of transition training that was a complete waste of time. The "trainer" basically said "buy a suit and find someplace to network...join a church, that is a good place to meet people and find a job."

I went to college, worked some crappy jobs, and took about 10 years to get my life together. For those serving now, enjoy every moment of your military time, get every ounce of education that is available. I noticed the Vets stick together at any company, we seem to find each other.

(Submitted by Mr. Eric Thomasson)

Comments

[Aaron Horton]

Don't worry Mr. Thomasson, nothing has changed in the TAPS program (as the A.F. calls it). I have spent the last three plus years doing everything from delivering pizza's to selling cars. I even worked on base as a civilian a couple of times. They didn't even trust me with the copier sometimes. Here I sit waiting for school to start hoping that it will help my family and I financially down the road fairly soon. My wife took up her job in the civilian sector after she got out and they do not let her do anything. She has more time and experience then one of her supervisors and could do a far greater deal of running the shop. Since she does not have a piece of paper from some over priced school saying that she can do those things, she sits and laughs as the company is run into the ground. The worst part is, the people in charge can not even figure out why. If you talk to the fellow vets that she works with, they all can tell you exactly what is wrong and how to fix it. But if they make an attempt to notify the minds that be, they laugh it off and keep tanking the business. All at the sake of hard working Americans that depend on the meager earnings that they get every two weeks.

[Mike King]

Wow, This must be a case by case basis. When I left the military in 2008 I found a job as an inventory operations manager... coming from personnel as a SSgt, this was a good find. Keep in mind though, this took work! I worked and reworked my resume and applied for jobs for the better part of 6 months. Since taking the job, I have been promoted twice and I now manage operations for two different regions and I have 21 employees. Life is what you want and what you're willing to work for to get out of it. Commit and work hard and you will be rewarded.

[Mike King]

Wow, This must be a case by case basis. When I left the military in 2008 I found a job as an inventory operations manager... coming from personnel as a SSgt, this was a good find. Keep in mind though, this took work! I worked and reworked my resume and applied for jobs for the better part of 6 months. Since taking the job, I have been promoted twice and I now manage operations for two different regions and I have 21 employees. Life is what you want and what you're willing to work for to get out of it. Commit and work hard and you will be rewarded.

[Ron Napier]

I agree that it is case-by-case; but I don't agree that if you work hard you will be rewarded. As my parents told me growing up: "life isn't fair" quickly followed by "then you die."
Some of the biggest achievements in my life were not necessarily the ones I worked the hardest for--and if another vet isn't quite making it, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and not infer that they are not working hard enough.
It's what you know; who you know; and who knows that you know what you know... A polished resume helps; but it has to be physically presented correctly (especially now with all of the online applications).

[K. Maye]

Leaving the military was a difficult transition.

Those of us who had the responsibility of other people's lives and multi-million dollar equipment such as aircraft, have a far more challenging task assimilating into corporate America where self initiative is not necessarily regarded to be a positive trait.

We tend to be more self-disciplined, are used to working harder and longer, and are goal-orientated. Excellent qualities for an upper level management position. Veterans are part of a very specific demographic that has nothing to do with our creed, color, religion, gender, or other means by which companies classify their workforce.

Despite the media stories and legislation that alludes to the contrary, the veteran is simply not welcome in the civilian workplace. Larger companies get significant tax breaks for hiring veterans within their hourly workforce. Hourly positions rarely offer real career progression or personal reward, comparable to that which we experienced in the military. Hourly employment often requires a drone mentality and therefore is generally unsuitable for those acclimated to managing millions of dollars of "inventory" with the added responsibility of literally protecting the very lives of those around them.

Consider the politics of the situation, as well. The manager who may consider hiring someone so highly credentialed in ways s/he may not even understand, will rarely embrace the concept of hiring someone who could easily perform their duties.

Be that as it may, the best and most lucrative career decision may be self-employment. Use the many skills you've developed, the leadership training, and the positive attitude toward meeting and exceeding goals and use that to achieve your goals.

Mssrs. Thomasson & Horton, you are not alone. Thousands of veterans confront this very situation every day. Associate yourself with veteran associations, continue your formal education, and realize this is a temporary situation. You served your country. Now it's time to serve for yourself. No one has your back out there.

Don't let that frustrate you. Accept it and make your dreams come true.

[JW]

I too have found it very difficult to get anywhere since leaving the AF and have seen others in the same situation. It looks as if the western states are the more difficult for vets as well. I have learned that the unions here have made it clear that any one with a journeyman or master rating in almost any skilled trade is still required to go through the apprenticeship program and begin as a helper. From time to time there are federal jobs or federal contract jobs that help catch up with the bills but they are very few and far between in this area.

With the current administration I do not see this taking any turn for the better any time soon. If you get a $250 check from Uncle same next month enjoy it because that is just how much they think your worth and they don't want you to have it anyway.

[P. Serrano]

Well said K. Maye! I have been out since 2000 and cave worked digging ditches to well paid contract work over-seas. What I have seen was that Brown nosers work their way into positions by sucking up to civilian contractors while neglecting their own job and dumping their workloads off on the people really qualified for the job. It would seem that to a kid fresh out of high school is the better candidate for the assembly plants or other Gov. contracted jobs because of who they know and they don't have an opinion. Working hard and smart does pay off, to a certain degree. And proving yourself has to be done in your resume because if you don't word it right than they will not even make it to calling on references or past employers. Learn how to B.S. and Find the bars that the Contractors frequent if you want to get in.
9years of being in the civilian workforce and having to leave my last good job over-seas,that took me 2years of school and 4years of doors slamming in my face to get and I have finally found a U.S. company that values the training learned in the military and offers the opportunity to work into positions that will pay my worth, in time and the effort put forward. So yes and no hard work does pay off but more to credit is opportunity. If you aren't a Kiss, well you know or a professional B.S artist or just not in the right place at the right time look forward to the heart ship stay optimistic because it's a long hard road people. The Military is not much different than the civilian work force. When you look back an see all the variety of people you worked for or with, The Supervisor that would put the blame on his mother to cover his tail. the Con Artists,thief's, Alcoholics,druggies,pervert, or the one who abuses the family. And God bless you if you made it through without knowing any of them, You should work for the U.N. because you are perfect. We all came from civilian life and return there. No amount of military indoctrination can make a Leopard change his spots or a Zebra's stripes, but with the will, endurance and aptitude you can change and be successful if you aren't looking for a miracle. You don't have to stoop to the level of others to get noticed you just need to learn how to sell your-self without being overly modest.
Good luck to all!

[Mick Dalrymple]

Retired in '93. The concept that employers hire ex military is eyewash that the corporations use to sell stuff. Those in the highest places in any company, probably never served a day. Now much has been made lately about ptsd in the press. Unless you are a professional athelete, this advertising about the potential negative mental health of ex-military plays against you. If you look around, you'll notice as I did that everybody is in the same boat, whether they served or not. Like in the military, it's who you know more than what you can do. Join a vet organization and get to know the older guys. They'll have the best advice and know who to talk too.

[Charles Stroud]

I spent 12 yrs working my back into the ground.Took a leap for this company,and moved my family three hrs away from our other family.Just for them to let me go one year later.leaving me with no support.I'm a vet of the gulf war and that never ment nothing in my time with that company.If you didnt Party you didnt count.I seen dope heads and acholics Ris in the ranks.So hard work and dedacation means nothing when there looking at the #'s.

[Joseph Markowski]

I see things have not changed much since "73" when I was medically discharged from the Navy after my service in VietNam. I had to hide the fact that I was a vet for 10 years to get even mim.wage jobs. However, I stayed with it on my own, going to night school, getting time in my profession (Stationary Engineer)getting certifications and now my potential employers frist look at my Navy time as a basis for a well grounded potential Chief Engineer.

Don't give up guys what made you great in the military will serve you well, if you can network with other vets we are willing and able to lend a helping hand I look for vets frist and then every other candidate next when I have an open position and I haven't been wrong doing so.

[Sgt Roberts Matthew]

I wish I was the only one struggling with my transition into civilian life. The fact is a major percentage of homeless are veterans. I my self have struggled for the past five years working here working there, almost homless at one point. I now have finally found my calling, stopping human trafiicing, but i am finding that the situation I am in is slowing me from going after what I want most. I'll find a way, and in doing so I hope to find a better solution to transitioning military members.

[Commodog]

I was one of the few lucky vets who after deploying with the initial invasion of Iraq via OIF I (March 20th 2003) came back with a few brainsores from my encounters.

I am not sure what changed, nor what engagement or operations caused the change, but I am nonetheless a far different man from whence I came. I have always been one of those guys who knew who they were, and how they handled themselves. I always held my head high, and one day that just stopped, or at least wasn't the same.

On the topic of PTSD and employment. I feel there needs to be some sort of Mental Health protection for veterans in the workplace. I say this because while fighting back anxiety attacks, flashbacks, and other extremely uncomfortable and physically disruptive aspects of PTSD, I was able to hold down my job and actually excel at it for a short while. I told my supervisor about my PTSD and the "Do's and dont's". One of the major things that will absolutely throw me into a panic attack and cause a reaction is sneaking up on me. This individual, for his own motives and purposes (He wanted a buddy of his from another company to take my position) he snuck up on me repeatedly, or would stand over my shoulder for 4-5 minutes straight without saying anything.

I made it aware to him these things would cause panic attacks, which was exactly his motive, and something he saw as a tool to utilize to get me out of my position. Which worked by the way.

My point? Don't think everyone respects you for your service. The same cowards who are genuinely too afraid to take up arms in defense of the country and constitution, are the same cowards who will play at your experiences as a step for own personal gain or advancement.

Heed the observation I have made above, and the observations of the many on this comment page.

Watch your back, because corporate America does not care!

[Iraq Vet]

I too was dianosed with PTSD at the VA. i went in originally because my job told me I looked horrible physically(worn out, visibly tire, ect) However, I excelled at my job and I still do. However at this one point the owner of the company(who is a vet. But I have a feeling he was kicked out or something that made him bitter) told me that I had to fix myself or he was gonna fire me(remember, I excel at my job, just my appearance was in question)

The problem is one day after I came back from the Mid East I just stopped being able to sleep. I went for 3 months straight with little more than 30 minutes sleep every other day. So I went to the VA, told them I couldn't sleep and VERY long story short I get diagnosed with PTSD.

This is a big problem for me, because personally I believe all those mental issue were people whining and trying to get attention, and now here I am with a specialist telling me I have PTSD. Well, I walk out after a couple months of going backand forth to the VA at least once a week with litterally an arm full of different perscription for meds. One of which was thankfully ambien. Well, I've been on these meds for about two years with limited success I now sleep 2, 3, or 4 hours a night.

Moral of this drawn out story is. I refused to tell the owner what I was diagnosed with or what meds I was on. I told him I had a sleeping disorder and they gave me sleeping pills. I go back to the VA once a month to talk to the specialist and get a note from the doctor saying I was there, and that's all the owner knows.

I too have triggers that set me off, however, I never tell anybody my weak points. I know that human nature is to exploit the weak spot. So I cover everything up ass best as possible. I would suggest that anybody else in the civilian work place do the same. Civilian can't and won't understand your mental illness. I'm a war vet with the illness and I don't understand it.

By the way I've been through 3 jobs since I got out. They have all sucked, including the one I'm currently at and have been for 2 years.

I went to a "vet only" job fair for a very large city. 3 profesional sports teams big and this job fair had 10 booths and this extended for the entire county. Job for vets are very limited, especially if your job skill learned in the military was shooting guns in a combat zone. People don't exactly have that opening available in the civilian world

[Commodog]

IraqVet,

I understand your point of view, and outlook, but alternatively, if you do not tell your employer what some of these buttons are, then they are likely to push them on accident, as opposed to being made aware of them. For instance, it would have only made sense to allow my cubicle/lab to be turned in a direction wherein my back was towards the wall. This was not an agreement (Simple change), my immediate supervisor was willing to allow, for whatever reason (Probably to continue his charades).

I think one of the largest factors contributing to loss of employment or lack of employment of vets in the American workforce, is that hiring a vet often means hiring somebody with integrity. Yeah, you read that right. WITH integrity.

Many civilians adopt a less than "Honest" or "Thorough" approach to their work ethics/performance, and this results in people skewing numbers, and basically conducting themselves in shady ways.

For instance:
The company I had most recently worked for, I fulfilled my role as a SMS Administrator. In this role it was my responsibility, as the systems expert, to provide software management solutions to the company, and provide realtime comprehensive reports on the actual amount of software in the environment. This company by the way, is a major player in Energy for the left half of the United States. My reports needed to be accurate and represent the actual numbers of allowed software, vs what is actually present. I am very good at this, and I assure you my system was optimally maintained. HOWEVER, due to contractual problems between my employer (The internaional contracted agency) and the client, said supervisor and other personnel were blatantly lying to the client about software by forcibly altering my reports. The misrepresentation could have cost the company millions of dollars (A state affiliated, taxpayer fund gulping company to boot), and was a outright lie to the face of the client.

I brought this to the attention of my immediate supervisor, but in an effort to save face (He hired the guy altering the reports), he allowed the reports to remain in their erroneous format in an attempt to "win back" the client.

The client then eventually chucked the company out of a cannon, and attempted to keep these occurences on the downlow so as to not cast a negative light on the contracted agency.

My point: People in the workplace are often crooks/swindlers/cowards who in light of any sort of turmoil would rather attempt to lie/cheat/steal their way out of situation rather than assume responsibility for their actions.

Your average soldier is not trained to tolerate this. There are exceptions but this gap in morality certainly poses a problem for those who learned that they had no choice but to lean on the brother/sister beside them, for support, and for their lives.

I do believe this is where Vets in the workforce also, run into problems.

[Bob]

I guess I was one of the lucky ones. After 24 years in the Army, I landed a job with a defense contractor supporting the very system I was trained for in the Army. I completed a AAS, BS, and MA while on active duty, and started my new position while on terminal leave with a starting salary that beat the AD salary plus allowances.

My military experience is valued by the company, as well as the learned work ethic and personal integrity. I am ofter queried as a system expert with a soldier's perspective, something that many of the career contractors here do not have.

I cherish the time I spent in uniform, but I do not regret for a minute our decision to hang up the BDUs and slip on the suit 3 years ago.

[Gordon Boyce]

I know the transition period can be very difficult. After serving almost 22 years in the military, I basically had to start over again. No one cares what rank you were or how many people you were responsible for leading to success. Be prepared to prove yourself all over again. Education is critically important to initially get your foot in the door. The more education the better. My general observation is that many vets have difficulty in grasping the concept that they must start over again and what you accomplished during your military career is nothing more than conversation to a civilian who has not spent a nano-second in harms way for their country. My advice is to take advantage of educational benefits and take advantage of fellowships, internships and other veterans employment programs.

[J McFarlane]

I left the Military After over 10 years of Service and found out quickly I had to be willing to start at the bottom again. It wasnt easy being 29 and having to answer to 21 YO Managers who not only didnt trust me with the copier- they couldnt operate it themselves. I am now 43 and run the company I am employed with ( COO- Chief Operating Officer). Its all about your willingness to start over. You have to prove your abilities and keep proving them . Military experience is valued by most employers but isnt a "free" get out of work card. Its always about what you offer daily and continue to offer any employer.

[OTH]

I realize the inequities in our society and I have read all the comments made on this site, but no one mentioned their faith and trust in God. I am older and spent many years with the military and civilian employment and believe me I have seen how bad people can really be. I read the Bible and pray daily and God has never failed to supply all my needs. He supplied me a beautiful when I was 40 and we have been married for many years. I could not have made if I trusted in myself, but my strength and courage came from my faith in God. I encourage all of you young men to put your faith and trust in the God of the Bible as the founder of America did.

[Diana]

I live in a small town and nobody here gives a damn if you are a vet or not. Civilian companies and especially civilians that can afford to come to work late, make up excuses and lie their way into their jobs, no rule places where everything changes from day to day I got pretty much sick of it and returned to a federal contractor job. Federal system, even civilian at least is more organized. Macys actually told me that if I cannot work the hours they are given me then I should reconsider what is more important for me -my health or my job. I was hired to do a 20 hour week job, part time and they wanted to use me for full time and pay part time benefits.I guess I chose to leave them, since I was overqualified for the job anyway and found my way to a wonderful job with the government. At least I get treated right and I get to find more vets amongst my colleagues and that makes me feel better. Is not about how much school I had, how faithful I was at the job, how hard working I was, they just wanted to use me and didn't care about my limitations. Thier loss, not mine. Indeed God helped me through all and it still is there for me. Sometimes people look at aveteran like some kind of UFO. Not a lot of people understand what it means to serve, because they are coward enough to stay behind their beer bottle and criticize the military. Sad, but some of us we are looked upon as some kind of damned. America needs more education on veterans. Kids too. God Bless you all!

[Dave]

For all of us who have served in the military, the world on the outside is different. But it is not all bad. There are businesses that do not appreciate our service mainly because they do not understand. There are those that give lip service to our service and that is because they pretend to understand. There are also those businesses that do appreciate our time spent protecting our freedom. My exepreince is some where around the lip service. My experience managing maintenance on several aircraft has no bearing on my current job. The experience I had as an electronics tech got me hired and the 15 years of managing people got me promoted as a manager without a degree. But in order to move up, I had to go back to school and get a BS degree. Just like the service, nothing is free, you do have to earn it. Yes, knowing people has an impact. Having been an outsider in every military community I worked in showed me that. I changed aircraft, maintenance levels, and even types of duty every time I got new orders in my 20 years in the Navy. Even being at my present company for nearly 12 years, those that have been here longer, stick together and sometimes apart from the rest of facility. However, it is what it is everywhere and the only thing you can control is how you approach each situation. Give up and you get no where. Persevere and you will find satisfaction.

[Rolando]

All comments are so true. After a divorce the second hardest thing I have ever confronted was transitioning to civilian world. Like the "First Blood" movie's final scene where Rambo talks about all the responsibility he had and how here in the states they only let him wash cars or something like that.
Where does an infantryman get a job in corporate America? Can't transfer that skill set.
I tell people that being in the military is like being on Mars, it just doesn't count here. Like another comment posted you have to use your skills to be self employed if you really want to make $$$ or learn how to "play the game" b/c the brown nosers will beat you everytime. Politics everywhere and don't ever let your boss know you have the ability to do their job, you will soon be out of yours.
I went to college to get out of the hell hole that is the us postal service, got my degree and see that "life is a bitch and then you die!" Unless your connected with someone higher up you are working on a meter and you don't know when it is going to stop running. Being a veteran doe not count except to those that serve(ed) or families and friends of those that served.
At last, God delivers us all who seek Him so take care of you, those you love, and forgive those that truly do not understand!
Their is always a way!
Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!!!

[M. Reinert]

After leaving the AF in 2000 I was able to successfully progress my career by utilizing the several different agencies that are available to veterans that do a lot of the digging for Vet friendly companies. I have also used the benefits from the military to obtain my Bachelors degree. The days are gone when Vets were given preference over others for having the professionalism and leadership abilities at corporations. The best bet I have found is to be competitive and continue advancing in either your career or education. During 2009 and the economic downturn it is extremely important that vets and non vets make a positive impact to their employer to ensure future retainment. Having faith that a company will keep or hire you based solely on your military experience is unrealistic. Make an impact and continuously progress is the best policy.

[will]

when i got out i applied for several jobs that i had experience in, including a job placement agency the 1 question i always hted to hear is "where is your degree" once i said i dont have one i could consider the interview over. it didn't matter how much wexperience i had it was the same. i then went and got that over priced piece of paper and then ran into the other problem "too much exierence, this is an entry level job" i ended up tossing my expierience off my resume to get hired as an entry level, and then had to show those "in charge" how to do things and now get used as a reference. it seams like if you know how to do somthing it means nothing until you have that "over priced piece of paper"